Internationals KIWIS RLWC 2017 Campaign

[bruce]

All other cultures ,While placing blame on that culture whether deserved or not u will get a large group of disenfranchised youth with which to work with.

For example ISIS and Hitler's Germany. I hear you on this.

In some places like the education system Maori culture is force fed to an extent, for example calls for Te Reo to be compulsory when some schools don't have any or many Maori students. That sort of thing causes negative reaction. I have experienced that sort of nonsense and it is even worse when it comes from Pakeha "liberals".

My experience from learning Maoritanga was in a different environment, relaxed, semi formal, I was interested to learn, they were happy to share so there was no tension.

However I have also lived in countries with an entirely different culture and language to mine. I was in a tiny majority. I had to go with it or piss off.

There are usually reasons why a culture is different to another, geography being the most common.

Without knowing anybody in the Kiwi camp I can only guess as to what actually went on, but to take what happened with Howie Tamati's side, and Tony Gordon's side in 1988 the Maori culture thing was promoted to cover a coach who didn't have it game wise.

 

[dean]

Part of a coaches job is to understand every player, what makes them tick and how to get the best from them and unite them into a team. Using a particular culture or religion or drink is not the way. It might be a fit for some but not all. We have probably all been in situations in parts of our lives, usually work, when we have encountered this and been expected to be part of it and resented it and the people who we felt pressured us. I seem to have spent half my life in these situations and never went the extra mile or felt part of a team.

 

[OMG]

Look at the Tongans.

Heritage + pride = effort

That formula is infectious. And it worked.

Now look at us.

How many of our players can relate to maori culture?

Maori heritage = no pride = no effort = no wins

Theres a time and place for everything. Shoving maori culture down their throats leading into and during a WC is just plain stupid.

Rant over

Most of the squad identifies as being Maori, 16 to be exact

Your talking ignorance, making up stuff up in your head to justify an argument that can be summed up as they just weren't good enough because you really don't have enough information about the episode to make an informed decision on whether it was detrimental to the teams performances.

Are you saying that because they spent a few nights on a Marae that they didn't train? or was it such an overwhelming experience for them it drained them mentally and physically?
It would have been detrimental to our chances if players didn't buy into to what they were doing which IMO was trying to bond as a unit, not trying to force the Nationally and Internationally recognised indigenous culture down their throats.

Culture building involves many different components and every team is different, you'd have to question the intellect of anyone who didn't recognize the heavy indigenous component of the National team and try and incorporate that into any preparations, particularly since the tournament was being hosted in the Motherland of the majority who identify as being Tangata Whenua.

The funny thing is the AB's have done very similar shit and the racists come out just the same way and say there isn't a place for it and then they win and everyone just moves on.
I will say watching the AB white boys do their Haka after watching Manners do our Haka made me think that maybe there is something to your argument, and I now question whether Manners had actually bought in.

 

[Off The Bench]

Nobody is being racist .I think we can all agree that the kiwis would be shit without our
Maori brothers .We are just saying that one culture should not be given preference .History
Proves this .It is our national team an all cultures should be respected .So that all players
An fans can identify an feel part of this.
The numbers of non Maori an non polynesians playing the game should tell you
That a lot of people aren't buying in..from grass roots up..
As for comparisons to the all blacks totally different set of values an
Traditions ,The Haka before the game is the only similarity.
You are right that we don't know what went on in camp .But I'm more
Worried by the fan turn out than the results .An I'm not bagging Maori culture
Just saying that non Maori do not identify with it as passionately as Maori.
These are sensitive issues an I appreciate that we can talk about them .without
Threats an abuse .Just shows that we are on the right path .Best wishes.J

 

[Weno]

Nobody is being racist .I think we can all agree that the kiwis would be shit without our
Maori brothers .We are just saying that one culture should not be given preference .History
Proves this .It is our national team an all cultures should be respected .So that all players
An fans can identify an feel part of this.
The numbers of non Maori an non polynesians playing the game should tell you
That a lot of people aren't buying in..from grass roots up..
As for comparisons to the all blacks totally different set of values an
Traditions ,The Haka before the game is the only similarity.
You are right that we don't know what went on in camp .But I'm more
Worried by the fan turn out than the results .An I'm not bagging Maori culture
Just saying that non Maori do not identify with it as passionately as Maori.
These are sensitive issues an I appreciate that we can talk about them .without
Threats an abuse .Just shows that we are on the right path .Best wishes.J

Bro town and Laughing with samoans.
Maori and island brothers laughing and talking about it ALL DAY.
Non maori / island brother - "' I DID NOT GET IT"'
In a way , being involved with youth in the social sector.
I have personally seen that non maori / island people connect with cultures that are not homegrown.
eg . Buddism and anything spiritually and enlightening .

Cant name a full non maori / island team from this era , have to name it from the 90s to now.

1- Matthew Ridge 2- Mark Ellis 3- Craig Innes 4- Jarrod McCracken 5- Matt Duffie 6- Kieron Foran 7- Gary Freeman 8-Brent Todd 9- Richard Swain
10- Grant Young 11- Gary Mercer 12- Brent Stuart 13- Simon Mannering 14- Nathan Fien 15- Slade Griffin 16- Jake McIllwrick 17 Luke Covell

Not a bad side besides the bench , love the centers , feel free to add.

 

[Sup42]

Nothing like Maori stuff gets New Zealanders fired up for page after page after page....!!!

What a great country.

Progressive society.

 

[Worried2Death]

1- Matthew Ridge 2- Mark Ellis 3- Craig Innes 4- Jarrod McCracken 5- Matt Duffie 6- Kieron Foran 7- Gary Freeman 8-Brent Todd 9- Richard Swain
10- Grant Young 11- Gary Mercer 12- Brent Stuart 13- Simon Mannering 14- Nathan Fien 15- Slade Griffin 16- Jake McIllwrick 17 Luke Covell

Not a bad side besides the bench , love the centers , feel free to add.

If you're including Fien can we add Lockyer and Wally Lewis too

 

[dean]

Although the Kiwi's were humiliated, this might be a very good thing in the long run. International league needs Samoa and Tonga and Fiji to be competitive. For this to happen their best players have to want to play for them and now many of them are. They are not waiting until they miss selection for us or Aussie. We need to play the Island teams regularly, at full strength and have some games in the Islands. An international scene that has only really had us, Aussie and GB is ridiculous. France is way off the pace and has been for about 40 years at least. The passion of the Tongan and Samoan supporters is second to none and they pack stadiums and bring real atmosphere. If they can continue to select their best players they will get an Aussie scalp to add to ours. The only thing needing to happen is to limit representation to one country and perhaps not allow Aussie to blackmail Island players by denying SOI representation.
I hope the Island nations get a fair share of any marketing and TV coverage payments as well.

 

[Weno]

If you're including Fien can we add Lockyer and Wally Lewis too

Did they play for NZ like Fien?

 

[Brother Faisal]

I’m actually staring to see a real future in these pacific tests. I think the time is now to really put together some tests against Tonga. These games can be our origin. Iron sharpens iron. We need something before we play Australia every year and we are in a wonderful state internationally where we have opponents who are even or better than us that can give us the warm ups trials etc to give Aussie a good go every year. If we book in Tonga for mid year test and one in October it would do wonders for both teams. Tonga’s brand has shot up in value so much. They are the team you want to work with. They could even book their own tests at mt smart every year knowing they will get 30,000 fans to a game. They just have to make it. In reality a nz v Tonga is like a nz a v nz b. We need our own origin.

 

[MXRecord]

I’m actually staring to see a real future in these pacific tests. I think the time is now to really put together some tests against Tonga. These games can be our origin. Iron sharpens iron. We need something before we play Australia every year and we are in a wonderful state internationally where we have opponents who are even or better than us that can give us the warm ups trials etc to give Aussie a good go every year. If we book in Tonga for mid year test and one in October it would do wonders for both teams. Tonga’s brand has shot up in value so much. They are the team you want to work with. They could even book their own tests at mt smart every year knowing they will get 30,000 fans to a game. They just have to make it. In reality a nz v Tonga is like a nz a v nz b. We need our own origin.

You are 100% right, this has to happen no question. The real question is, are NZRL competent enough to? The cynic in me doesn't think they are.

 

[Worried2Death]

I’m actually staring to see a real future in these pacific tests. I think the time is now to really put together some tests against Tonga. These games can be our origin. Iron sharpens iron. We need something before we play Australia every year and we are in a wonderful state internationally where we have opponents who are even or better than us that can give us the warm ups trials etc to give Aussie a good go every year. If we book in Tonga for mid year test and one in October it would do wonders for both teams. Tonga’s brand has shot up in value so much. They are the team you want to work with. They could even book their own tests at mt smart every year knowing they will get 30,000 fans to a game. They just have to make it. In reality a nz v Tonga is like a nz a v nz b. We need our own origin.

We'd all like to see this, but need to include Samoa and Fiji. What happens to NZ/Tonga rivalry when Samoa rise again? Tonga's brand is up because the Lolo/Fifita schism caught everyone out. JT was a clown for giving Kidwell the arse but it was fukn awesome seeing him emerge from the Sipi Tau like a resurrected god. If Toa Samoa follow Tonga's example and get a few Roger Tuivasa-Sheck-level defectors and Milf they'll be up there too.

Pacific 4 Nations over Origin period, with promotion/relegation for PNG, Cookies etc. We would have to accept the risk of the Kiwis getting relegated though. If we lose the likes of NAS and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck to Samoa you's might get your way again, but fuck, it's gotta be better than the tedium of watching Queensland clean up NSW every year. If it takes off, a few of the Island boys might commit to Pacific teams over NSW/QLD.

Fill the Mount for multiple games and there'll be a shitload of cash to dish out to the respective teams, and broadcast deals would be more lucrative than $30 a day.

#Let'sDoThis ...except the NRL will never let it happen. It would decimate the cash cow that feeds us all.

 

[jonesy101]

Did they play for NZ like Fien?

Brent Webb was another. Torres Strait Island heritage. Wouldn't have him ahead of Ridge, but was a more than handy player in his time.

 

[Brother Faisal]

We'd all like to see this, but need to include Samoa and Fiji. What happens to NZ/Tonga rivalry when Samoa rise again? Tonga's brand is up because the Lolo/Fifita schism caught everyone out. Jase Taumalolo was a clown giving Kidwell the arse but it was fukn awesome seeing him emerge from the Sipi Tau like a resurrected god. If Toa Samoa follow Tonga's example and get a few Roger Tuivasa-Sheck-level defectors and Milf they'll be up there too.

Pacific 4 Nations over Origin period, with promotion/relegation for PNG, Cookies etc. We would have to accept the risk of the Kiwis getting relegated though. If we lose the likes of NAS and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck to Samoa you's might get your way again, but fuck, it's gotta be better than the tedium of watching Queensland clean up NSW every year. If it takes off, a few of the Island boys might commit to Pacific teams over NSW/QLD.

Fill Mount Smart for multiple games and there'll be a shitload of cash to dish out to the respective teams, and broadcast deals would be more lucrative than $30 a day per player.

#Let'sDoThis ...except the NRL will never let it happen. It would decimate the cash cow that feeds us all.

I think also the nrlisation of origin football is quite evident. Origin is over structured now and is about completions and perfect sets. What everyone hasn’t enjoyed about the island nations and nz has been the risk taking and the flair but moreso the passion. Rugby league is made for people who play with passion and when both teams play that way despite all the errors it comes off amazingly to spectators. The nrl and origin is all about control and wrestling. The pacific tests are purely passion and expressing yourself more. What was more expressive then seeing taumalolo palm 2 guys off like the hulk he is or fusitua climbing the ladder like Mj. It’s much purer football that we all enjoy to watch.

 

[Brother Faisal]

We'd all like to see this, but need to include Samoa and Fiji. What happens to NZ/Tonga rivalry when Samoa rise again? Tonga's brand is up because the Lolo/Fifita schism caught everyone out. Jase Taumalolo was a clown giving Kidwell the arse but it was fukn awesome seeing him emerge from the Sipi Tau like a resurrected god. If Toa Samoa follow Tonga's example and get a few Roger Tuivasa-Sheck-level defectors and Milf they'll be up there too.

Pacific 4 Nations over Origin period, with promotion/relegation for PNG, Cookies etc. We would have to accept the risk of the Kiwis getting relegated though. If we lose the likes of NAS and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck to Samoa you's might get your way again, but fuck, it's gotta be better than the tedium of watching Queensland clean up NSW every year. If it takes off, a few of the Island boys might commit to Pacific teams over NSW/QLD.

Fill Mount Smart for multiple games and there'll be a shitload of cash to dish out to the respective teams, and broadcast deals would be more lucrative than $30 a day per player.

#Let'sDoThis ...except the NRL will never let it happen. It would decimate the cash cow that feeds us all.

The key here is that you’d hope the key players remain for tonga till the next World Cup. If you keep Fifita taumalolo taukeiaho lolohea Hingano jennins fusitua hurrell Tupou for the next 4 years you have a rock solid team that will challenge the kiwis consistently. From what it sounds like they will so as the NZRL what’s the harm in working something out with Tonga over the next 2 years at least. It’s a sure bet and will bring in a crowd of 25,000 at mmt smart and hamilton.

 

[jonesy101]

I think also the nrlisation of origin football is quite evident. Origin is over structured now and is about completions and perfect sets. What everyone hasn’t enjoyed about the island nations and nz has been the risk taking and the flair but moreso the passion. Rugby league is made for people who play with passion and when both teams play that way despite all the errors it comes off amazingly to spectators. The nrl and origin is all about control and wrestling. The pacific tests are purely passion and expressing yourself more. What was more expressive then seeing taumalolo palm 2 guys off like the hulk he is or fusitua climbing the ladder like Mj. It’s much purer football that we all enjoy to watch.

I agree with your Origin comments. In recent years Origin has been robotic and a difficult watch to be honest.

 

[Beastmode]

Lets have an abo vs maori vs island test series.

That would be just awesome.

White people not allowed because we dont celebrate white heritage.

Actually maybe we can have a separate proud to be kiwi vs proud to be Australian test series.... who wants to play?

 

[Pozza]

Lets have an abo vs maori vs island test series.

That would be just awesome.

White people not allowed because we dont celebrate white heritage.

Actually maybe we can have a separate proud to be kiwi vs proud to be Australian test series.... who wants to play?

Jesus just about choked on my soy milk latte. LOL

 

[Pozza]

I think also the nrlisation of origin football is quite evident. Origin is over structured now and is about completions and perfect sets. What everyone hasn’t enjoyed about the island nations and nz has been the risk taking and the flair but moreso the passion. Rugby league is made for people who play with passion and when both teams play that way despite all the errors it comes off amazingly to spectators. The nrl and origin is all about control and wrestling. The pacific tests are purely passion and expressing yourself more. What was more expressive then seeing taumalolo palm 2 guys off like the hulk he is or fusitua climbing the ladder like Mj. It’s much purer football that we all enjoy to watch.

In essence the game has been dumbed down, the NRL are looking for athletes more than footballers

 

[Brother Faisal]

I agree with your Origin comments. In recent years Origin has been robotic and a difficult watch to be honest.

Yes even origin has gone away from its core values which is passion first before techinical precision, the nrl has added the wrestle and completion rate that takes away from the spectacle, the rlwc has bought back the passion which has re energized viewers and fans, the aussie nrl fans are the ones missing out but are not willing to acknowledge the passion that international footy is developing.