Internationals Kiwi Team vs England

playdaball_old

Guest
In essence the next game for the Kiwis vs. England is a 'nothing' game. We'll still play them in the semis therefore coaches Kearney and Bennett can do a few things:

1, Give guys who have not played yet a run i.e. - Kidwell, Nightingale, Tuimavavae etc.

2, Look at some options for the troublesome halves spot i.e. - experiment with Fien, Lance or Ropati

3, Continue playing the same team all the way through to the finals

Who do you think will be in the team?
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
Options 1 and 2 are essential. In any football World Cup, the team that wins its first two group matches usually fields a second string side in the third because the result won't affect them progressing, and it grants further experience to the fringe squad players.

Playing the same team and risking injuries, (particularly to the likes of Mr Glass Marshall), wouldn't be ideal. I can see the thinking behind using the same lineup, but I think the potential negatives outweigh the positives.
 

Skinny_Ravs82

Guest
I wouldn't mind if they went with the first two options either; but I also think keeping up momentum is a good thing and sometimes changes can upset that, not always but it can. And just because England got quite a serve last night doesn't mean they won't bounce backin one way or another
 

edguy_old

Guest
well thomas has to move on ..id rather see fein there any day , although the last 2 games ive seen him play vs manly and vs aussie were shockers......id give lance a run at 5/8th . and play benjamin at halfback
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
I'd keep Lance away from the halves, and Benji from the halfback role. Leuluai actually went well, believe it or nut, once he and Fien swapped places.

So maybe:
1. Hohaia
6. Marshall
7. Fien
9. Luke
14. Leuluai

Or even better:
1. Inu
6. Marshall
7. Fien
9. Luke
14. Hohaia
 

edguy_old

Guest
inu offers more at fullback..he is a freak ..freaks do freakish things and win games....lance off the bench ....ropo to sit this one out , and give matai and perret a centre spot..
my team ...

kris inu
manu V
steve matai
sam perret
Florence nightingale
ben marshall
nathan fein {lesser of 2 evils}
nathan cayless
issac luke
adam blair been very impressed with him
dave kidwell for some fire ....we may need it .
simon mannering
jerry smith

res hohaia eastwood sa rapira


yeah ? na ?
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
inu offers more at fullback..he is a freak ..freaks do freakish things and win games....lance off the bench ....ropo to sit this one out , and give matai and perret a centre spot..
my team ...

kris inu
manu V
steve matai
sam perret
Florence nightingale
ben marshall
nathan fein {lesser of 2 evils}
nathan cayless
issac luke
adam blair been very impressed with him
dave kidwell for some fire ....we may need it .
simon mannering
jerry smith

res hohaia eastwood sa rapira


yeah ? na ?

Swap Manu and Nightingale around, as they play on the other wings.

Is Matai even available? I know he missed a match through suspension but he was pretty badly injured, too. Still, not sure that Ropati dseerves the week off.

Undecided on Luke starting, but him and Hohaia as the two hookers gets the big tick from me.

Undecided on Kidwell - lots of experience, but low on form.
 

garyhobson_old

Guest
I'd keep Lance away from the halves, and Benji from the halfback role. Leuluai actually went well, believe it or nut, once he and Fien swapped places.

So maybe:
1. Hohaia
6. Marshall
7. Fien
9. Luke
14. Leuluai

Or even better:
1. Inu
6. Marshall
7. Fien
9. Luke
14. Hohaia

Remember TL was playing against PNG. Which is about his playing standard anyway. All of his kicks he made in the game were all average. At best he's probably a back up hooker on the bench. If that was the case from the very start I think the Kiwis had better options to pick from like a Terrance Seuseu or Masada Iosefa. Even Latu.

I'd give Jason Nightingale a run on the wing in the next game v England, but not against Australia, he would be a waste V Australia, lacks the size and strength.
 

Esoj_old

Guest
playing england twice in a row it seems in all likelihood so might as well save something for the game that counts the semi. I think we will see a couple of changes at least so that the top team is ready to play for the semi. not sure who will miss out but there is an entire squad for a reason so I think guys like nightingale and kidwell may just get a run.
 

garyhobson_old

Guest
playing england twice in a row it seems in all likelihood so might as well save something for the game that counts the semi. I think we will see a couple of changes at least so that the top team is ready to play for the semi. not sure who will miss out but there is an entire squad for a reason so I think guys like nightingale and kidwell may just get a run.

David Kidwell has had it. Don't think he'll add anything to this Kiwi team. It would have been better if the Kiwis had picked some other young forward than David Kidwell. He's played some great test matches for the Kiwis, passionate player, but it would have been great to see the kiwis pick a young guy like Ben Matulino or Cherrington from the Roosters, thats the future for the Kiwis forward pack.
 
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jahc_old

Guest
Leuluai and Marshall need to play every game to find some form before we play Australia again.
 

garyhobson_old

Guest
Leuluai and Marshall need to play every game to find some form before we play Australia again.

TL will never find form. He's not good enough at this level, and not suited to this Kiwis team.

He wouldnt make any NRL team as a number 7. Perhaps as a hooker, but hes not a halfback.
 
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Joe 90_old

Guest
I would normally agree with resting players at some stage during pool play, and obviously injuries (Matai, Marshall) and form (Leuluai) will need to be looked at, but given the odd format of having 3 of the top teams in the same pool (anyone know why they did that?) and the fact that NZ and England are very even teams, could mean that when it comes to the semi, confidence and the pyscological edge of winning the pool match, could mean all the difference. Right at this moment, i see England as being slightly more out of sorts than the Kiwi's, lets not play them into form or allow them to get any momentum by playing a 2nd string team.
 
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Jesbass_old

Guest
I would normally agree with resting players at some stage during pool play, and obviously injuries (Matai, Marshall) and form (Leuluai) will need to be looked at, but given the odd format of having 3 of the top teams in the same pool (anyone know why they did that?) and the fact that NZ and England are very even teams, could mean that when it comes to the semi, confidence and the pyscological edge of winning the pool match, could mean all the difference. Right at this moment, i see England as being slightly more out of sorts than the Kiwi's, lets not play them into form or allow them to get any momentum by playing a 2nd string team.

I actually expect both teams to field weakened lineups for this coming match.

I was going to say that the reason for having a super pool with the 3 top nations together was to ensure one of the semi finalists is so that a minnow is guaranteed of a semi-final spot, but that would have happened anyway... :confused:
 

Kid-Dynamite_old

Guest
If we were going to experiment I would like to see, Perrett to fullback, Nightengale on the wing with Manu, Inu and Matai in the centres, Fien and Marshall in the halves, Issac Luke at hooker and Hohaia on the bench.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
England Coach Mulls Options For NZ Clash

https://www.rlwc08.com/news/news/archive/2008/11/02/england-coach-mulls-options-for-nz-clash.aspx

To rest or not to rest - that is the dilemma facing England and New Zealand heading into Saturday night's meaningless World Cup clash in Newcastle.

A combination of expected results and poor performances have rendered the pool A game redundant, with the two teams to meet in the semi-finals a week later barring an unthinkable Papua New Guinea win over Australia on Sunday night.

England coach Tony Smith said he didn't know what approach his side would take into the match following their embarrassing 52-4 loss to the Kangaroos on Sunday night.

There would be temptation to give squad members outside his top 17 a run against the Kiwis, a play which would also deny New Zealand the opportunity of a practice run against their expected semi-final opponents.

But given England's performance on Sunday night, Smith may be forced to go with his best in a bid to find some semblance of form heading into the elimination games.

There is also the psychological advantage the winner of Saturday night's clash would take into the semis, though confidence levels of both sides would be low given their inept performances against Australia in the opening fortnight of the tournament.

"We'll sit down as a coaching team and have a look, review that game and see if what changes need to happen if any," Smith said.

"It looks like it's going to be a straight situation for next week in terms of there's a possibility of us both playing each other the following week.

"We'll just assess that."

Five-eighth Leon Pryce suffered a rib injury late in the first half of Sunday night's clash, a situation that could see Smith promote Danny McGuire to the starting line-up against the Kiwis.

England looked out of sorts in attack against Australia, while they also need plenty of improvement in their edge defence after being carved up by Kangaroos pair Billy Slater and Greg Inglis.

"It's an easy one to bounce back from. It makes you more determined and pulls your group together," Smith said.

"You just pick yourself up and go again, like you do in training every week. That's what you do in professional sport.

"We're all hurting, we're all part of it. When the team doesn't perform well we're all part of it."

Lions captain Jamie Peacock cut a forlorn figure in the sheds, his shock and disappointment obvious.

Asked if he any side stood a chance of beating Australia in the November 22 final, Peacock stated the obvious.

"Well for us to beat them we need to play a hell of a lot better than that, we need to play a lot better than that," he said.

New Zealand five-eighth Benji Marshall said he was keen to play the Lions despite a hamstring injury which saw him sit out the second half of the Kiwis' win over Papua New Guinea on Saturday night.

Source: AA
 

Joe 90_old

Guest
I actually expect both teams to field weakened lineups for this coming match.

Yeah, i have no doubt both coaches would like to do this (if they we're playing Ireland or the like then it'd be a certainty) and it may still pan out that way. But as alluded to in the article you posted, the psychological advantage, confidence, (and as i see it) momentum the winner may take out of it, must also be tempting both coaches to play full strength line ups.
Of course winning the pool match doesn't automatically guarentee success in the semi, and as i mentioned in my previous post injuries and form need to be taken into account, but i subscribe to the "keep em down when there down" theory.
Normally i'd have no problem resting players in a dead rubber, but given the rather odd circumstances with the draw that means we're playing the same team consecutively, there may be more in this match than first thought.
 

garyhobson_old

Guest
I saw no point in selecting players like David Kidwell and David Fa'alogo, other than for their exprience which they bring to the squad. Their days in the kiwi jumper are numbered. They are over the hill. Better options to go with Cherrington or Ben Matulino. Both big guys who can hit hard, future of the Kiwi forward pack.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
I think Fa'alogo will be with the Kiwis for a couple of years yet, as he's still only 28. Kidwell, on the other hand, is counting down at 31.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
Yeah, i have no doubt both coaches would like to do this (if they we're playing Ireland or the like then it'd be a certainty) and it may still pan out that way. But as alluded to in the article you posted, the psychological advantage, confidence, (and as i see it) momentum the winner may take out of it, must also be tempting both coaches to play full strength line ups.
Of course winning the pool match doesn't automatically guarentee success in the semi, and as i mentioned in my previous post injuries and form need to be taken into account, but i subscribe to the "keep em down when there down" theory.
Normally i'd have no problem resting players in a dead rubber, but given the rather odd circumstances with the draw that means we're playing the same team consecutively, there may be more in this match than first thought.

Yeah, I can see what you're getting at, and I'm beginning to agree. I do think it would be worth resting those with niggles, like Marshall, but at the same time, I can see the benefits of momentum and form. I just don't want us to have some freak injuries and have some great form but plenty of walking wounded.