General Ken and fus vs faster wingers?

[snake77]

Fusitua went back for the birth of his child and he has been absolutely dragged through the mud for it. I will tell you one thing, I would never have missed the birth of my daughter. Not for my job, not for footy, not for nothing. You may only get one chance at cutting that cord in your life - you might not even get that. To be fair I would probably have thought worse of him if he didn't go back for such a big event in his life and to support his wife.

They all have different family situations. After round 1 when it looked like they were there indefinitley Hiku and Herbert went home as they had new borns and needed to be with their partners. At that point the side went over there expecting it to be the weekend it ended up looking like it was indefinite.

On the resumption the understanding was the NRL would do what they could to get their families over there. These guys probably discussed it with their families and decided if they could all make it over there the father should go initially and they will meet them. It would of been hard for the partners to travel with a new born even if it is a private flight.

To me we don't know the guys family situations or how much of a support network the partners left behind have. Not our business to know.

There are too many vairables with all of this. Next year they will probably fine to travel and it might be harder for other guys.

Happy to debate their playing strengths and weaknesses and I don't hold anything against them returning home.

 

[gREVUS]

A theory that I have is that the rule changes have led to the opportunity for less structured play on the edges because middles are compressing. Instead of always running double block plays to create a sliver of space for your winger on the sideline, there's now more opportunity for a half to skip out and hit a hole or play short to a backrower or centre. This has brought the ''strike centre' back into the attack and means wingers need to be more 'eyes up' and have game awareness.

However, I think set starts (and therefore yardage wingers) are just as or more important in the new rules.

I'll be interested to see how Ken and Fusitua go with a pre-season under the belt and a new game model based on the new rules. Are they just prop-wing + set play finishers or are they footballers? Thats the question for me.

Edit: mods sorry I just saw the new thread specific to the wingers, please move this if required.

IMO they are prop wings.
IMO Ken is better than Fusitua
IMO we only need one of them - I ascribe to the theory that one wing should have speed on it.

Given what i have seen this season making yardage up the middle is easier with the new six again rule than i have ever seen it. As such the biggest advantage of prop wings has been negated. Hell there is also the unused 20/40 as an easy way to get up the pitch which was brought about to address this issue completely.
As both current wingers are one dimensional in that they are both attacking experts, how does that compare with someone like Herbert who seems more rounded but without their x factor.

A question are early set runners any where near as important when so many sets starts are getting six again calls on the first and second play of the ball? Faster players who flop around might be the better go to extend those sets out to 8 plays instead of 5 battering runs.

 

[Fonzie]

Given what i have seen this season making yardage up the middle is easier with the new six again rule than i have ever seen it. As such the biggest advantage of prop wings has been negated. Hell there is also the unused 20/40 as an easy way to get up the pitch which was brought about to address this issue completely.

A question are early set runners any where near as important when so many sets starts are getting six again calls on the first and second play of the ball? Faster players who flop around might be the better go to extend those sets out to 8 plays instead of 5 battering runs.

I think this is where we disagree - I don't think the new rules make yardage easier, I think they amplify the benefit of winning the ruck with ball in hand. A good set start can get amplified into 6 again (or one or two extra tackles). You don't get 6 again if you are losing the PTB.

 

[Beastmode]

IMO they are prop wings.
IMO Ken is better than Fusitua
IMO we only need one of them - I ascribe to the theory that one wing should have speed on it.

Given what i have seen this season making yardage up the middle is easier with the new six again rule than i have ever seen it. As such the biggest advantage of prop wings has been negated. Hell there is also the unused 20/40 as an easy way to get up the pitch which was brought about to address this issue completely.
As both current wingers are one dimensional in that they are both attacking experts, how does that compare with someone like Herbert who seems more rounded but without their x factor.

A question are early set runners any where near as important when so many sets starts are getting six again calls on the first and second play of the ball? Faster players who flop around might be the better go to extend those sets out to 8 plays instead of 5 battering runs.

Sorry you lost me after saying Ken is better than Fusitua. Like are you being serious???

 

[wizards rage]

Sorry you lost me after saying Ken is better than Fusitua. Like are you being serious???

I see a poll needed for that one...

Fusitua is more talented and agile but has had a year and a half of injury and low form.

Maumalo is the battering ram, less talent, more power. Was poor a few years ago but has developed into a true beast.

The better player is arguably whoever has Hiku inside them.

 

[Fearmuss]

They are both too slow. Ken just scores easy tries that most wingers could score.

At least Fusitua can jump.

I don’t care about Ken’s metres as that is just a symptom of the forwards not doing enough work and the complete lack of kick pressure we had under Kearney’s dumb teams.

 

[Ever Hopeful]

I have a huge amount of respect for Maumalo due to his dedication and resilience over the last few years. He really has become a better player, just not the kind I'm really a fan of. This makes the vitriol for his character pretty disappointing.

Fusitu'a has a ceiling that is way higher than Ken's imo, it is a shame that it hasn't been fully tapped. He doesn't seem to have the intensity that has helped Maumalo to improve. He passes well, has a great offload in contact, is good in the air, an exciting finisher, seems to be in a better position to receive the ball than Ken (who doesn't seem to have a natural footy awareness). I've always thought that Fusitua would be one of the first picked in the team if a coach could work with his skills more. He seems to lack a bit of heart, but who knows if this is just outward personality rather than anything internal (think resting bitch face, or Matulino's seemingly indifferent appearance).

Fusitu'a for me, but based on hopefulness rather than finished product, which I understand seems a bit off when you consider he is our longest serving Warrior. He also needs some speed and agility in the team around him.

 

[AlexM]

Would be happy to keep George J. Guys playing well , has good feet and balance.
Something Ken lacks.
Fusitua and Ken are both good players but I feel they aren't natural players - Fusitua less so than Ken.
Would rather have only 1 of them in the side as a winger and a Patrick Herbert or a George Jennings on the other side.

 

[gREVUS]

Sorry you lost me after saying Ken is better than Fusitua. Like are you being serious???

Yes. I think Fusitua only rated well because of Hiku. And yes the same could be said of Ken, which is why i really think both could easily be replaced with an average second string Australian player. ie someone like Jennings or Herbert

 

[Sup42]

Fusitua looks like he tries hard to do just enough each game but never more.

Typical old school Warrior mindset.

I think we have moved on from these types. I think we prefer anyone who really gives a shit over talent.

This season has been one of the most enjoyable of all and it's down to effort not talent.

 

[Beastmode]

Yes. I think Fusitua only rated well because of Hiku. And yes the same could be said of Ken, which is why i really think both could easily be replaced with an average second string Australian player. ie someone like Jennings or Herbert

Oh sorry, I didn’t realise it was criticism aimed at both players

I do agree it’s refreshing to see a normal winger on the wing for once...

The whole Lomu/Manu fad really needs an overhaul back to these traditional wingers with proper skills and attributes ... speed, agility and football IQ..

I’m so over the wingprop idea... Ken has the build of a forward so logically that’s where he should be playing....

 

[gREVUS]

Oh sorry, I didn’t realise it was criticism aimed at both players

I do agree it’s refreshing to see a normal winger on the wing for once...

The whole Lomu/Manu fad really needs an overhaul back to these traditional wingers with proper skills and attributes ... speed, agility and football IQ..

I’m so over the wingprop idea... Ken has the build of a forward so logically that’s where he should be playing....

i think its to late to move him there. I think he has more upside than Fusitua. But yea he aint Manu and the game model has moved on since those days anyway.

They have contracts though and i cant see them being torn up even if its just because of the negative publicity and the way things have already gone this year. In which case benching one is better than having both.

 

[Stalefish540]

Without getting into paragraphs of detail on both of them. For me it comes down to the fact it appears one of them can drag themself out of a form slump through hard work, and a willingness to put themself in the game. The other one has a higher ceiling, but appears to lack the mental toughness to drag himself out of this form slump and instead relies on trys as some sort of confidence barometer. One is also one of if not the highest payed wingers in the game, and needs to sort his shit out. Hopefully a fit Ratuva can bring him back to life, because currently he's worth about half of what that lofty contract states.

 

[pompower]

This is pure speculation but obviously form-wise, Fusitu'a has looked a different player over the last couple of years. When I watch him, even when he plays well, it seems a little loveless and there isn't the joy in scoring that he used to have. I have no idea if that's actually the case or if I'm just seeing things (or if it is then what might be causing it), but he has all the ability in the world to set things right. Hopefully it's just a mental hump or stress over his previous injuries, and Brown can instil some confidence in him. Perhaps this break will do him some good.

Very few players have turned it around at the Warriors like Ken did. He's not perfect, but when he first broke into the team, he was shambolic. To go from that to being Dally M winger of the year is something he should be very proud of. He knows his role, tries his heart out, and more often than not is pretty damn effective.

I also think having one of each -- battering ram and agile, silky finisher -- is a good approach. I like Jennings and wouldn't mind signing him based on his performances for us, but I don't think he's really brought much more to the table than a different body type/bit more speed. Because of that, his performances can seem more notable than they actually are, I think. He's not doing anything markedly differently imo. Our whole attacking structure has a huge influence on how these guys are going to perform, especially our centre pairing and halves combination, which are probably worthy of threads in their own right.

If I was in charge, I'd be keeping both, blank slate next season, and signing Jennings as depth to push them.

 

[Gizzyfan]

Personally for me the best player gets the spot. Ken particularly have improved themselves over time. They have had to take the metre gaining role as our forwards were not doing it.

Also we have had very effective big Wings in Meli and Vatuvei which has affected our outlooks as well.

 

[CHURCUZ]

Personally for me the best player gets the spot.

Simple as that!