General Jnr Warriors v Vulcans - Recruitment???

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slaughterhouse.sa_old

Guest
After the Vulcans demolition of the Jnr Warriors yesterday, it has further
emphasised my opinion that the vuclans get overlooked too much, in terms of recruitment.

The Warriors would of been better served to look at the vulcans as they do the juniors ; as a development tool.
If they do sign on a Jnr Warriors; rightfully they love to harp on the fact they developed him etc.. But they can do the same with the Vulcans.

I understand they are youngsters and will improve as time goes on.
However we must remember most of the Vulcans are from 21 - 25 years old.

Yesterday, they had entirely local non-contracted players predominately from Auckland with two from Waikato.

Most of the players are local reps/nz residents are shown last year after often better players than contract Warriors .. . eg. Penehe & Robinson last year.
And hopefully the Vulcans play the best players available/best performing.

Have a look at the vulcans.
Guys like Blackwell, Bristow, Matagi, Kingi have consistently been some of the best
players in New Zealand past 3 years at least.

They would seem old to the average punter, but would all be 25 or under.

Rusty - his is all mental - a good communicator like Ricky Henry could get the best out of him.
He could really motivate - he has made mistakes but Warriors have shown they leave the door open for recovery.
He such a natural and has so much talent - fully firing he could be a star.

Suia Matagi & Manu Mau could really be success stories.
I understand they have had a chequred past but have really been carving up at a local level - both in positions Warriors need depth in. PROP

If they can get assistance in gaining travel restrictions ok'ed alaa metcalfe.
They could really gain a career in NRL .. .whether it be here or in oz.

Simply put Kingi is better than Alehana Mara (both good players)
He needs to get a manager (or better one) he should be able to gain a contract at a club like the Eels.

Nuivao Taka & Willie Peace are not conventional NRL wingers (shorty & stocky) but have been proven to be so succesful at NSW cup level
And will get some interest this year.


Auckland Vulcans:
James Blackwell -
Willie Peace jnr
Ruebenn Williams
Rusty Bristow
Niuvao Taka
Steve Waetford
Willie Stowers
Suaia Matagi
Darren Kingi
Tulson Caird
Arden Mccarthy
Agnatius Paasi
Murray Iti
Henry Chan-Ting
Shaun Johnson Bristow
Daniel Palavi
Herman Retzlaff
 

Norby_old

Guest
Agree with you their slaughter.

I'm surprised Kingi hasn't been snapped up by other clubs yet, quick around dummy half can kick and makes a truck load of tackles each game.

Matagi impresses me too, hard prop/2nd rower who loves to roll the sleeves up and do the hard yards. Manu Ma'u what a talent this guy is, and for anybody who watches Fox or Auckland rep footy knows that this guy is a beast, constantly bending the line with every ball carry and is a tough nut.
 

slaughterhouse.sa_old

Guest
Agree with you their slaughter.

I'm surprised Kingi hasn't been snapped up by other clubs yet, quick around dummy half can kick and makes a truck load of tackles each game.

Matagi impresses me too, hard prop/2nd rower who loves to roll the sleeves up and do the hard yards. Manu Ma'u what a talent this guy is, and for anybody who watches Fox or Auckland rep footy knows that this guy is a beast, constantly bending the line with every ball carry and is a tough nut.

Yeah Kingi is the proof of non-nyc discrimination.
He would have been one year to old for the first year of Jnr Warriors.
One year younger he would already be in the system.

Matagi - I am 100% confident he could make it at NRL level
He is big, strong etc but extremely mobile and quick.
Would be perfect prop/ tight 2nd rower of the bench.

Manu Mau - is pretty short so might get ignored by NRL scouts, but is like Asotasi in his prime. Tough as nails, good motor & good footwork.
 

Viking_old

Guest
After the Vulcans demolition of the Jnr Warriors yesterday, it has further
emphasised my opinion that the vuclans get overlooked too much, in terms of recruitment.

The Warriors would of been better served to look at the vulcans as they do the juniors ; as a development tool.
If they do sign on a Jnr Warriors; rightfully they love to harp on the fact they developed him etc.. But they can do the same with the Vulcans.

I understand they are youngsters and will improve as time goes on.
However we must remember most of the Vulcans are from 21 - 25 years old.

Yesterday, they had entirely local non-contracted players predominately from Auckland with two from Waikato.

Most of the players are local reps/nz residents are shown last year after often better players than contract Warriors .. . eg. Penehe & Robinson last year.
And hopefully the Vulcans play the best players available/best performing.

Have a look at the vulcans.
Guys like Blackwell, Bristow, Matagi, Kingi have consistently been some of the best
players in New Zealand past 3 years at least.

They would seem old to the average punter, but would all be 25 or under.

Rusty - his is all mental - a good communicator like Ricky Henry could get the best out of him.
He could really motivate - he has made mistakes but Warriors have shown they leave the door open for recovery.
He such a natural and has so much talent - fully firing he could be a star.

Suia Matagi & Manu Mau could really be success stories.
I understand they have had a chequred past but have really been carving up at a local level - both in positions Warriors need depth in. PROP

If they can get assistance in gaining travel restrictions ok'ed alaa metcalfe.
They could really gain a career in NRL .. .whether it be here or in oz.

Simply put Kingi is better than Alehana Mara (both good players)
He needs to get a manager (or better one) he should be able to gain a contract at a club like the Eels.

Nuivao Taka & Willie Peace are not conventional NRL wingers (shorty & stocky) but have been proven to be so succesful at NSW cup level
And will get some interest this year.


Auckland Vulcans:
James Blackwell -
Willie Peace jnr
Ruebenn Williams
Rusty Bristow
Niuvao Taka
Steve Waetford
Willie Stowers
Suaia Matagi
Darren Kingi
Tulson Caird
Arden Mccarthy
Agnatius Paasi
Murray Iti
Henry Chan-Ting
Shaun Johnson Bristow
Daniel Palavi
Herman Retzlaff

Top post, everything you've said is spot on. The obsession with young players has made it so hard for the guys that don't make the age cut or develop later on, to make the NRL now.

The other thing that annoys me is when the Vulcans do beat the Jrs, which is usually every time they can field their best players, the Warriors media use a headline like 'Understrength juniors go down to Vulcans' or something similar instead of giving the Vulcans any real praise.

Rusty Bristow needs to move overseas to have a professional career in League or even union. Same goes for Retzlaff and a few others in the squad.

Dunno about Paasi, he didn't pick up an NYC contract after winning the Arrive Alive cup with Keebra, then moved back here, played a year with Mangere in 2010 and into the GF winning NYC team last year and didn't pick up a 1st grade contract anywhere either. What isn't he doing right, do you reckon?
 

Viking_old

Guest
I have to take the comment about the Warriors media back, this article on the Warriors site doesn't offer too many excuses:

Heavy trial loss for Vodafone Junior Warriors
18/02/2012 9:29:53 PM


The Vodafone Junior Warriors couldn’t stay with the Auckland Vulcans in Saturday’s trial at Toll Stadium in Whangarei, losing 10-48 to last year’s New South Wales Cup grand finalists.
It was a graphic example of young players being tested by a line-up comprising far more seasoned players, although the Vulcans didn’t have any Vodafone Warriors players in their squad for this outing.
By halftime the Vulcans were well ahead 28-6 after a period in which the Vodafone Junior Warriors were rarely able to apply any pressure due to a succession of errors. They weren’t helped either by the loss of big prop Toka Likiliki with a knee injury after he’d made a big bust.
Ultimately, though, the Vulcans were not only too experienced but were also well organised as they profited from a healthy supply of the ball.
Winger Niuvao Taka was literally unstoppable as he grabbed three of his side’s 10 tries while four of the other try scorers were former Vodafone Junior Warriors Agnatius Paasi, Rusty Bristow, Henry Chan-Ting and Daniel Palavi. Coming on the field late and kicking two conversions was DJ Collier, who scored 312 points for Vodafone Junior Warriors last year when he led all scorers in the competition.
There were only slim pickings for the Vodafone Junior Warriors after playing their earlier trials against Auckland club sides and the Wellington Orcas 20s. Halfback Jordan Meads ran 60 metres for an intercept try in the first half while Adam Tuimavave-Gerrrard scored the team’s only other try late in the contest.
Match details:

At Toll Stadium, Whangarei

Auckland Vulcans 48 (Niuvao Taka 3, Agnatius Paasi, Rusty Bristow, James Blackwell, Ruebenn Williams, Henry Chan-Ting, Daniel Palavi, Manu Mau tries; Willie Stowers 2 conversions; DJ Collier 2 conversions).
Vodafone Junior Warriors 10 (Jordan Meads, Adam Tuimavave-Gerrard tries; Braxton Stanley conversion).
Halftime: 28-6 Vulcans.
Referees: Daniel Caddy and Jamal Thompson.

Teams:

Vodafone Junior Warriors: Peta Hiku, Viliami Lolohea, Adam Tuimavave-Gerrard, Braxton Stanley, Ngataua Hukatai, Harry Vete, Jordan Meads, Ligi Sao, Eko Malu, Albert Vete, Visesio Setefano, Nathaniel Peteru, Malakai Houma, Siliva Havili, Donald Tony, Omar Slaimankhel, Trent Bishop, Chris Ofanoa, Sione Feao, Simi Kata, Fine Faingaa, Toka Likiliki, David Bhana.
Auckland Vulcans: James Blackwell, Willie Peace jnr, Ruebenn Williams, Rusty Bristow, Niuvao Taka, Steve Waetford, Willie Stowers, Suaia Matagi, Darren Kingi, Tulson Caird, Arden Mccarthy, Agnatius Paasi, Murray Iti, Henry Chan-Ting, Shaun Johnson Bristow, Daniel Palavi, Herman Retzlaff, Leni Sulusi.

The Vodafone Junior Warriors have another trial against the Glenora Bears at Cornwall Park tomorrow (2.30pm kick-off):
Vodafone Junior Warriors: Viliami Kaveinga, Alamoti Finau, Josh Tamaseu-Russell, Esera Esera, David Fusitua, Honeti Tuha, Mason Lino, Atu Tupou, Jethro Friend, Falaniko Leilua, Shawn Marsters, Miro Atera, Sunia Hala, Kouma Samson, James Taylor, Vince Afoa, Kurt Robinson, Ken Maumalo, Tama Koopu, Eric Newbigging, Francis Toetu, Siulongoua Fotofili, Saula Solomona, Sainila Tagi.


https://www.warriors.co.nz/default....heavy-trial-loss-for-vodafone-junior-warriors
 

Viking_old

Guest
Talked to one of the Glenora players on Friday, their squad is not long into training so not up to fitness yet.
 

SMAC19_old

Guest
gonna be a good year watching the vulcans for sure of yesterdays performance
 

wallacenz_old

Guest
Its no surprise our juniors struggle against more experienced seniors.

Last year it was reported that our junior team was on average 10kg heavier across the park than all other competition, obviously when they play a senior team theyre not going to be so physically dominant.
 

slaughterhouse.sa_old

Guest
Top post, everything you've said is spot on. The obsession with young players has made it so hard for the guys that don't make the age cut or develop later on, to make the NRL now.

The other thing that annoys me is when the Vulcans do beat the Jrs, which is usually every time they can field their best players, the Warriors media use a headline like 'Understrength juniors go down to Vulcans' or something similar instead of giving the Vulcans any real praise.

Rusty Bristow needs to move overseas to have a professional career in League or even union. Same goes for Retzlaff and a few others in the squad.

Dunno about Paasi, he didn't pick up an NYC contract after winning the Arrive Alive cup with Keebra, then moved back here, played a year with Mangere in 2010 and into the GF winning NYC team last year and didn't pick up a 1st grade contract anywhere either. What isn't he doing right, do you reckon?

Yeah agreed with Bristow - but if he commits to really playing league he could become a topline players. A year in vulcans = pro contract (of some sort)

Paasi - had a contract with Tigers in 2010, but came back to NZ due to visa issues (tongan passport). Know his lil bro (they look like twins) Samsoni Paasi is now with the Tigers.
He is a fuifui moimoi clone.
 

Defence_old

Guest
What happened to likiliki? Hopefully it's not too bad- Mean player imo, imagine he would be a force in NYC this year if fit
 

2big2strong_old

Guest
I can see where you guys are coming from but I don't really agree tbh.

Rusty Bristow is a great reserve grade quality player but will never be an NRL player. He's far too slow and has a bad attitude. He had his chance with the Cowboys for the 2009 season and blew it. He has gone off the radar since then and now has to start from scratch.

This is last years GF team...

1 Glen Fisiiahi (Warrior)
2 Willie Peace (had his chance with the Sharks as a lock/2nd rower and was rubbish, if he's going to re-develop himself as a winger then he has a long way to go to make an NRL team)
3 Sione Lousi (Warrior)
4 Ivan Penehe (Warrior)
5 Niuvoa Taka ?
6 Brett Seymour (Warrior)
7 Pita Godinet [c] (Warrior)
8 James Gavet (Warrior)
9 Alehana Mara (Warrior)
10 Jeremy Latimore (Warrior)
11 Ukuma Ta'ai (Warrior)
12 Matt Robinson (Warrior)
13 Isaac John [vc] (Warrior)

14 Darin Kingi (Another Aaron Heremaia, back-up option maybe but not worth the long term investment tbh)
15 Mataupu Poching (Warrior)
16 Tulson Caird (park footballer)
17 Steve Rapira (Warrior)
18 Anthony Gelling ( The shit/gate scandal did him no favours, he had to re-serve his apprenticeship to clear his name)

I don't see the problem?

I can almost guarantee that anyone with a checkered past will be overlooked until they serve the time for their crime. Look at John Te Reo at the Broncos, he was the Alex Glenn of the '06 season and was looking really promising but he messed up and is still paying the consequences.

NRL clubs these days don't want the risk of employing someone with marginal skill but a questionable character and TBH, a lot of the Vulcans past and present have fit this profile.

Metcalfe
Bristow
Gelling
now Latu


I think that NRL coaching teams prefer to go for the younger skilled players because they can still mould their attitudes, characters and morals to a certain degree.


I've got a lot of mates playing qcup/nswcup etc that have foul attitudes, they think that the world owes them something and they just continue on with their lives thinking that everyone else has a problem for them not making the NRL instead of being humble and laying off the piss for a few days here and there and working harder to achieve their goals.
 

slaughterhouse.sa_old

Guest
I can see where you guys are coming from but I don't really agree tbh.

Rusty Bristow is a great reserve grade quality player but will never be an NRL player. He's far too slow and has a bad attitude. He had his chance with the Cowboys for the 2009 season and blew it. He has gone off the radar since then and now has to start from scratch.

This is last years GF team...

I don't see the problem?

I can almost guarantee that anyone with a checkered past will be overlooked until they serve the time for their crime. Look at John Te Reo at the Broncos, he was the Alex Glenn of the '06 season and was looking really promising but he messed up and is still paying the consequences.

NRL clubs these days don't want the risk of employing someone with marginal skill but a questionable character and TBH, a lot of the Vulcans past and present have fit this profile.

Metcalfe
Bristow
Gelling
now Latu


I think that NRL coaching teams prefer to go for the younger skilled players because they can still mould their attitudes, characters and morals to a certain degree.


I've got a lot of mates playing qcup/nswcup etc that have foul attitudes, they think that the world owes them something and they just continue on with their lives thinking that everyone else has a problem for them not making the NRL instead of being humble and laying off the piss for a few days here and there and working harder to achieve their goals.

Yeah mate you make some decent points .. . however I feel some of these youngsters have been fast tracked to NRL without earning it ...

Especially a problemn / well a fine line with the Warriors.

Look like a guy like Sam Lousi . .. instead of getting him to fix his deficincies
Coach played him week in, week out.
I would have dropped to vulcans or fox for a few weeks, til he came back sharper.

Same thing for Slaimankhel
He .. .yet he doesnt even have any ball skills
While he scored a shiet load of tries . . he not developing to extent he could.

Potentially same thing for havili.
He could be a top hooker long term . . but needs to get int better shape to stay a hooker. But they will play him week in, week out unless injured.
Where the motivation to get better.

rather than signup all the top youngsters .. . look at promoting a vulcans especially if its in a position they need.

They resign lousi, palavi, taukieaho, ben henry . .. all backrowers.
 

Raurimu Massive_old

Guest
Good points made on both sides of the debate. My only contribution would be the mindset that if the guys in the Vulcans were truly up to NRL standard they'd have made their bid by now. For every player who succeeds at top level sports there are always going to dozens who can't cut it, or are just plain unlucky. No joke, I know of a guy making a rep rugby team on the basis of his hair - statistically, he was evenly matched with a couple of other players, but had a wild head of red hair that made him stand out even when he wasn't involved in play.

Remember too, when signing a non-nyc player, the Warriors have every senior team in the country to pick talent from - eg Lewis Brown.
 

Viking_old

Guest
I think that NRL coaching teams prefer to go for the younger skilled players because they can still mould their attitudes, characters and morals to a certain degree.

IMO, it's less to do with that as that's what they did with young players prior to the Toyota Cup anyway, it has more to do with investing in players now. The thing we forget is that the NYC is now a try before you buy deal for the Warriors and every other NRL club. Despite the Vulcans smashing a Jr's team that was close to Acklands top team, it would cost the Warriors 4 times as much to take on a player like Nuivao Taka (who scored a hat-trick) than any of the Jr backs he dusted in the game.

Like you say, clubs can just mold young players into whatever they want and if it doesn't work out, move on to the next project and the total cost of the exercise is somewhere between 10 and 20K. That makes it extremely tough for the late developers to crack the big time though. That's just the way it is I suppose. NRL clubs used to pick players up from lower grades like the Vulcans for depth, the NYC means they don't have to now. The other side of it is that Nuivao is already a very good player in a senior comp and has been for some time whereas the Jrs he left in his wake, may or may not be as good as him or better, you just don't know. Nuivao would have a contract by now if not for the NYC so he's unlucky. Same goes for Pita, who had to knock on the door for 3 years before getting the NRL minimum. Any superstar 19 year old who gets a year ending injury playing for the club, faces a long nervous wait to see if the club keeps him once he turns 20.

What I'm seeing a bit of now is some young players, who always thought they were going to crack the big time but didn't get picked up once they turned 20, having nothing to fall back on. I know the clubs are meant to ensure NYC players are working towards a trade or higher education but it doesn't look as though the Warriors are as strict as other clubs in this area.
 
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¿N. ig-mah¿_old

Guest
Yeah mate you make some decent points .. . however I feel some of these youngsters have been fast tracked to NRL without earning it ...

Especially a problemn / well a fine line with the Warriors.

Look like a guy like Sam Lousi . .. instead of getting him to fix his deficincies
Coach played him week in, week out.
I would have dropped to vulcans or fox for a few weeks, til he came back sharper.

Same thing for Slaimankhel
He .. .yet he doesnt even have any ball skills
While he scored a shiet load of tries . . he not developing to extent he could.

Potentially same thing for havili.
He could be a top hooker long term . . but needs to get int better shape to stay a hooker. But they will play him week in, week out unless injured.
Where the motivation to get better.

rather than signup all the top youngsters .. . look at promoting a vulcans especially if its in a position they need.

They resign lousi, palavi, taukieaho, ben henry . .. all backrowers.

Two points I disagree with are your views on Sam Lousi and Omar.

I think due to Sam's size it would be difficult to mould him at junior level. The only way to get the best out of him is to square him off against men, rather than boys. That is also one of Sam's problems - he is a boy. He has the technique of a kid and the intencity of a kid. He will improve and work harder in the Vulcans, and I believe he will make a big splash in first grade next year, or later this year, once he gains a little maturity and hunger for the jersey.

I don't see a lot to complain about in Omar's game. Damned straight he scores a lot of tries, but he also stops a heap as well. His defence is sensational compared to most in the NYC. And he is a great support player. I believe he could potentially push Fish out of the club in the future (not saying Omar is better than Fish, just that he will be a better option as backup as he is a little more versatile and can be used as a winger until called on to cover the back, and will probably be cheaper too). I reckon he will get signed to the seniors as a winger and backup fullback, which will make it harder to retain Fish.

I can't really comment on the Vulcans players as I only get to see them when on TV. Most of the players that have been spoken of are not players I know a lot about. But I think Godinet has shown there is still a twinkle of hope to gain a first grade contract if you work your butt off in NSW Cup and stand out from the crowd.
 

Defence_old

Guest
I've got a lot of mates playing qcup/nswcup etc that have foul attitudes, they think that the world owes them something and they just continue on with their lives thinking that everyone else has a problem for them not making the NRL instead of being humble and laying off the piss for a few days here and there and working harder to achieve their goals.[/QUOTE]

Haha yeah I've known a few of them myself
 

2big2strong_old

Guest
What I'm seeing a bit of now is some young players, who always thought they were going to crack the big time but didn't get picked up once they turned 20, having nothing to fall back on. I know the clubs are meant to ensure NYC players are working towards a trade or higher education but it doesn't look as though the Warriors are as strict as other clubs in this area.

It's not up to the individual club, it's a pre-requisite! To be eligible to play NYC you have to be involved in either a tertiary degree, an apprenticeship or a traineeship. If you don't have one of those you cannot play Toyota cup. I know a few boys that have cheated the system and are only working a few hours a week at footlocker or other retailers but are sitting 'Cert IV's in retail ( about an hour of homework a month) so that they are eligible for NYC.

This is happening both sides of the Tasman. The smart ones JPalavi, Omar etc are going to UNI and are receiving tertiary grants from the Warriors that are exempt from the salary caps.

If a player has nothing to fall back on after his NYC career then he has no-one to blame but themselves. They get all the resources and advise that they could ever need, it's not the clubs fault if the player wants to spend their down time sinking piss at the desi lounge and post pics of it all over the Internet. Plenty of time for that shit AFTER they score their big time contracts.
 

LordGnome_old

Guest
Surely, the reason that the Vulcans are so strong is because of the success of the Junior Warriors?

Isn't that the point of feilding the three teams (to develope talent and a depth of it?)
 

AC5_old

Guest
Kind of related, but this is why I'd rather see the Toyota cup become an under 25 competition, with maybe a club under 18/19 team as well. You could have an allowance for 1 player over 25 to provide experience/ come back from injury. I reckon you'd allow a lot more development to happen and it would make the jump between grades more like a small step, especially in terms of defence. You could also ensure all players who were on 2nd tier contracts are working towards a tertiary quality or a trade, as already exists.

#justrambling