General Ivan Cleary

Jesbass_old

Guest
This comment perfectly illustrates the flawed nature of all your analysis and is really just straw-clutching.

Wingers dont own the result of a game.

Halfbacks do.

It's that simple.

Halves can only do so much. If the forwards don't lay the platform, they're limited for time and space. Add to that having three massive forwards targeting him in defense, and it's no wonder that Jones struggled, especially without defensive support.

Like it or not, the team was sub par across the board.

The irony is that NU didn't blame Kemp for the loss - he was simply saying that Jones isn't the lone cause of the loss.

Yeah.. I've given up arguing with NU.. No matter what happens he will always see what he wants to see.. and thats Kemp being the "worst winger in the NRL",. I bag the sh*t out of Jones, but so does 90% of these forums now. And for the better part I think it's justified. However, if he turns around next weekend and has a blinder, i'll be the first to say he played well. Having said that, the chances of that happening are about as likely as NU making a post that I even slightly agree with.

As do you, and as do I. We just choose to take facts and put them into our own context.

what does nu expect from kemp.we dont pass the ball to him in try scoring situations,up until the cowboys game we never kicked to his wing,whats kemp meant to do,he does his work in scooting out of dummy to help forwards

weird how guys hate players for no reason.swap kemp with weinterstein and kemp would have 10-12 tries

Yep, it sure is weird...except that NU didn't do that. He stated his reasons very clearly.

Then read the post that says Ah Van left Kemp exposed on a number of occasions, probably all of the occasions he's talking about. As DK said, NU sees what he wants to see.

You and I do the same, TD.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
He also thinks wingers are more important than halves to the success of a team...

Truth is if we had good halves, you could throw Jesbass on Kemp's wing and we'd still win more games than we are currently.

An out of favour Broncos forward on the wing? Could be pretty damn scary!

Although...I could use my basic stats knowledge to outplay the opposition by predicting what they're most likely to do next. That'd be...geeky.
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
Blaming Jones for this loss is farcical. The Raiders forwards ran at him all match long, (and fair enough - it's a good tactic, because even though he's a reasonable defender, he's still a small bloke who can be overrun), and he didn't receive the assistance he needed to be afforded.

At the same time, Kemp wasn't the cause of our loss, either.

Jones made 25 tackles. Let's not kid ourselves that he had a Herculean workload here. It was probably an above average defensive workload for a halfback. However, he floundered badly. This decision to bring back Stacey is appearing more and more damned by the minute.

Kemp was caught out many times on his flank, he came running in a few times and got nothing. It was funny at times watching Canberra go mid field, offload, and then find a 2-3 man overlap down Kemp's side.

Tragic.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
Ok let me break it down for you.

You asked:



What you're saying here is that people should focus on the underperforming winger rather than the underperforming halfback.

And i maintain that your selection of winger doesnt have anywhere near as much of an overall bearing on the result. Which is why your harassment of Kemp is really taking the eye off the ball in terms of team selections.

Lol, talk about taking something out of context. I have said in the wake of the Raiders match that even Thurston would have struggled behind our forward pack, which is to say, like NU, that Jones wasn't the only guy at fault.

I definitely believe that matches are, by and large, won and lost in the engine room.
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
Is anyone still as depressed over yesterday and this tragic season as I am? :-( This season cuts like a knife... and I hate Gloria Estefan.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
Is anyone still as depressed over yesterday and this tragic season as I am? :-( This season cuts like a knife... and I hate Gloria Estefan.

To be honest...it doesn't bother me too much, and I'm not sure why.
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
Jes, I need to make a request, mate, and don't take this the wrong way.

But can you piss off back to Europe???

We seemed to win when you buggered off :p
 

Northern_Union

Guest
I just hope like hell the players are feeling more for this lose than Iafeta, Jesbass and myself.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
Jes, I need to make a request, mate, and don't take this the wrong way.

But can you piss off back to Europe???

We seemed to win when you buggered off :p

Yeah, I figured I was the curse, so moved out of the city. It still ain't working, huh. The good news is that I can't make this home match, so we should win by at least 100.
 

mrblonde_old

Guest
As NU said
Like Jesbass i'm also worried by my lack of passion over yesterdays lose.

I put it down to what I alluded to in one of my earlier posts:
This has happened before. And before. I keep looking for Bill Murray and Andie McDowell hanging around Warriors games as the two stars in "Warriors: Groundhog Day". Sunday Star Times pointed out the similarities between 07, 08 and 09. If you went back further I'm sure you'd notice the pattern. Poor start/better finish. Okay, 04's the exception and maybe 05 so that doesn't hold entirely. We know the boys can come good. Stop laughing! Why not? They did last year. And the year before.
Ivan would be seriously retarded not to look long and hard at Mr S Jones. Not as a player in the 17 because I think he's got a lot to offer still. But it is time to ask if he'll ever be in the starting 13 again. I'll admit here Lance Hohaia's probably my favourite player and someone - I forget who - on here has described him as "jack of all trades, master of none". I've got absolutely no problem with that. If you get rid of that type of player you're assuming waaayyy too much:
A: Nobody who's first choice in their position breaks anything.
B: Nobody who's first choice in their position gets sent off/suspended by the NRL judiciary
C: Nobody who's first choice in their position will ever have a bad game.
The man needs and deserves to be in the starting 13. I'd start him at 7 this week and next week at the very least. What's the harm? If he fails you've got Jones or Fien on the bench.
I didn't follow the U20s so can't comment on who did well but McKinnon may as well be sponsored by "Don't Know If I Can Do It/Care If I Can Do It Ltd". I think he beat one tackler yesterday and that was in our 20. Time for a breather. Or is the more to the injury than we're being told and by coming back he's a better version of Arsenal's Tomas Rosicky? Got injured - some tendon injury. First reports said he'd be out for a week or two. Didn't play a game all season.
 

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