General Ivan Cleary

Northern_Union

Guest
northern union where is your list on stacey

how man missed tackles
ineffective tackles
how many players off loaded in a stacey tackle
poor kicks
attack meters
challenged the line

if you watch the replay northern union,you will see paddy ah van going miles infield on at least 3 tries and leaving kemp in no mans land

Judging by your user name i'd suggest your not the most unbiased of people? My list on Jones? I haven't got one because i don't believe one is warrented. I suggest you keep one on Jones next week and i'll do the same with Kemp.
 

KeepingTheFaith_old

Guest
I find it hard to fault the outside backs for this loss. We were shot to bits out wide, but when you look at the amount of space the Canberra backs had to work with on the edges it's very obvious that the damage was being done in the centre with quick ball movement giving the outside backs little to no chance.

I feel sorry for Stacey, oddly enough I think his defence is better than when he played a few years ago, but even Stacey in his prime couldn't handle the one on one giants he's exposed to these days. The lack of support is killing him in D and I imagine doing him no favours in attack as he's fatigued from defending.
 

Tyrael_old

Guest
The problem now is that the middle of the park (backs) are too inexperienced. You have moon, ropo, jones, ah van.

We know that Moon really hasn't had a crack, ropo sucks, Jones is past it and Ah Van is really inconsistent.

Then you look at the forwards.
Rapira looks like perhaps the sterum is causing more problems. Packer is still very inexperienced. Royal hasn't got his mind on the game. Price is having a few off ones.

Then you look at the Coach. Ivan hasn't had that much experience coaching. Yes he has a couple of top 8 finishes but look at the results of the first half of the comp every season. He's run out of ideas when it comes to coaching because he hasn't paid his dues. What happens if he has to go at the end of the season? Who would be our coach? There IS no one!!! Bring back another ex-warrior when the Eel's are done with Anderson?
 

KeepingTheFaith_old

Guest
As for Cleary, in his defence the Warriors did try to sign just about every available halfback last year before we simply ran out of options.

On the flip side of that, Bronson Harrison was off contract and we signed Lillyman. Probably reflects Cleary's conservative approach.
 

Magic Stick_old

Guest
. The lack of support is killing him in D and I imagine doing him no favours in attack as he's fatigued from defending.

If you have to protect Stacey in defense.he is a liability then...cause that leaves holes elsewhere, Ive noticed guys have to come in and finish off all his tackles anyway,especially today guys were coming in to help Stacey and the Raiders were still getting away offloads,we got caught like that a few times

If im a oposite coach against the Warriors,i get my big athletic guys running at Stacey all day,On that note ive never noticed the Warriors attacking anothers teams weakness or certain players

but yet i notice teams showing up Stacey, or running there attack at Ropati
 

a.c.e_old

Guest
I did something I hadn't done in over 2years, I switched off the tv and walked away with only 20mins left in the 2nd half, gutted seeing my Warriors offer nothing, absolutely nothing in the Raiders game.

Last year it was always "the halves need fixing" after todays game, its more then the halves, its the whole damn team! Hell, dont just introduce Locke or Johnson from Toyota Cup to play in 1st grade, bloody bring the whole team across! At least I know the Warriors will go down fighting and putting on points! We are starting to go down the same road as the Eels: have the players to be in top contention but not producing!

I need a panadol.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
Blaming Jones for this loss is farcical. The Raiders forwards ran at him all match long, (and fair enough - it's a good tactic, because even though he's a reasonable defender, he's still a small bloke who can be overrun), and he didn't receive the assistance he needed to be afforded.

At the same time, Kemp wasn't the cause of our loss, either.
 

Magic Stick_old

Guest
Blaming Jones for this loss is farcical. The Raiders forwards ran at him all match long, (and fair enough - it's a good tactic, because even though he's a reasonable defender, he's still a small bloke who can be overrun), and he didn't receive the assistance he needed to be afforded.

At the same time, Kemp wasn't the cause of our loss, either.

No one is blaming everything on Stacey.but he aint playing well....if all Stacey is going to do though is catch and pass and offer zero in attack we may aswell starting blooding Heremaia and John
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
No one is blaming everything on Stacey.but he aint playing well....if all Stacey is going to do though is catch and pass and offer zero in attack we may aswell starting blooding Heremaia and John

He's the only one I've seen cop blame so far, except for one post blaming Kemp. The reality is that Jones played poorly this week and last week, but he did so behind a monstered forward pack. I wouldn't be opposed to changes in the halves next week, but I think that our forwards are a much bigger issue that needs to be resolved. Hopefully Tuimavave will be ready for an NRL return soon - ideally, this coming weekend.
 

Kid-Dynamite_old

Guest
He's the only one I've seen cop blame so far, except for one post blaming Kemp. The reality is that Jones played poorly this week and last week, but he did so behind a monstered forward pack. I wouldn't be opposed to changes in the halves next week, but I think that our forwards are a much bigger issue that needs to be resolved. Hopefully Tuimavave will be ready for an NRL return soon - ideally, this coming weekend.

I think people are dissapointed that some players (i.e Fien) are geting dropped for somewhat poor performances, where players (i.e Stacey Jones) are putting in performances just as bad, if not worse and keeping there starting spot!
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
I think people are dissapointed that some players (i.e Fien) are geting dropped for somewhat poor performances, where players (i.e Stacey Jones) are putting in performances just as bad, if not worse and keeping there starting spot!

Fien has made one try assist all season. One.

I agree that Jones was about as bad as Fien against the Cowboys, but did anyone really expect both of them to get dropped?
 

Kid-Dynamite_old

Guest
Stats don't always neccessarily tell a true story.

Facts are, Fien is a better defender, Fien has a crisper pass, i.e his ball is more likely to get on the outside of a defender than Stacey's, and kicking game....well they're about equal!

1 try assist sure, but like I said Fiens's pass across the backline would be faster than Stacey's. I remember last week against the Cowboys, Fien put Moon on the outside of his defender with a good ball, and then Moon set up Denan Kemp to score.

That doesn't go down as a try assist to Fien, but it is as good as!
 

Northern_Union

Guest
I for one am not blamming Kemp for the lose. I'm simply point out that those attacking Jones whilest saying Kemp is playing well are very wide of the mark.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
Stats don't always neccessarily tell a true story.

Facts are, Fien is a better defender, Fien has a crisper pass, i.e his ball is more likely to get on the outside of a defender than Stacey's, and kicking game....well they're about equal!

1 try assist sure, but like I said Fiens's pass across the backline would be faster than Stacey's. I remember last week against the Cowboys, Fien put Moon on the outside of his defender with a good ball, and then Moon set up Denan Kemp to score.

That doesn't go down as a try assist to Fien, but it is as good as!

Actually, your first fact is wrong. Fien had a worse tackle completion result in the Cowboys match than Jones. (83.333% for Fien as opposed to 93.3% for Jones.)

But this is my point. Jones has done better, but not by much. And even if Fien's pass to Moon was attributed to him as a try assist, Jones still has triple that number.

Tries: Jones 2, Fien 1
Try Assists: Jones 6, Fien 1
Line Breaks: Jones 2, Fien 2
Line Break Assists: Jones 1, Fien 3
Average Metres: Jones 25.5m, Fien 35.56m
Average Kick: Jones 24.5m, Fien 28.27m
Tackle Completion %: Jones 91.4%, Fien 88.1%

The point here is that the stats are so incredibly similar. Jones earns his stay over Fien courtesy of claiming victory over the Sea Eagles and the Roosters.

If we were to go on the cold hard facts, we'd ideally change both the halves, but then issues like experience come into play.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
I for one am not blamming Kemp for the lose. I'm simply point out that those attacking Jones whilest saying Kemp is playing well are very wide of the mark.

To be honest, I think we'd be lucky to find a player who is playing well. They're all subpar at the moment.
 

Magic Stick_old

Guest
Flicked throught the Raiders tries on MySky and Kempforanmoon was right. Ah Van rushed in numerous times too assist Jones and left Kemp high and dry
Raiders were there in numbers too.like they knew the offloads were going to come
 

Tajhay_old

Guest
Tries: Jones 2, Fien 1
Try Assists: Jones 6, Fien 1
Line Breaks: Jones 2, Fien 2
Line Break Assists: Jones 1, Fien 3
Average Metres: Jones 25.5m, Fien 35.56m
Average Kick: Jones 24.5m, Fien 28.27m
Tackle Completion %: Jones 91.4%, Fien 88.1%

Jones : attacking plays = 2 (bomb to manu, wrap around)
Fien : attacking plays = far more

if i were an opposition coach id rather face off against stacey as i know what he will do rather than anyone else in the comp.
 

NathanW_old

Guest
No i've only taken notes on Kemp mainly because i think he has been right up there with the worst buys that the club has ever made, yet a few other posters are of the opinion that he is playing pretty well. And for the most part the same posters are bagging Jones who i think is copping more than his share of the blame.
Is Jones playing to the level he was playing when the Warriors made the semis regularly or when he was the test 7? No. But he is being blamed for things that Cleary cleary is to blame for and being blamed for a lack of go forward and ticker from the forwards. If the forwards dominate and make there tackles does Jones still cop the same blame? No.

Can someone explain to me and many others what Cleary's plan is concerning our halfs? Because he seems to me to be running around in circles.

You guys make some good points. I admit I have been bagging both Stacey and Kemp a lot. In fact , ONLY Stacey and Kemp. Obviously theres a problem in the frontline too though. What happened to our drive through attack and solid defence in the middle? Maybe it is the coach? How can a team go from looking progressive , solid and potential plus this season to getting ass whipped by the team that got ass whipped? This is really low man. I don't have any answers, only severe frustration. I'm sure my blood pressure goes up every sunday arvo.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
Jones : attacking plays = 2 (bomb to manu, wrap around)
Fien : attacking plays = far more

if i were an opposition coach id rather face off against stacey as i know what he will do rather than anyone else in the comp.

Is "far more" Tajhay-talk for "kicking the ball as hard as you can when 5m out"? Lol.

I think you missed the point. Both are playing poorly, but I think their performances are more symptoms than causes. Even so, our depth in experienced halves is very low.
 

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