General Ivan Cleary you cost us this game.

Jesbass_old

Guest
The difference is Rovelli has been consistently poor for the better part of 18 months now and yet he keeps getting a free pass. That's what's grating on my nerves.

Despite his poor form for more than a season, Rovelli was starting to come good, (or so we thought), by greatly increasing his try assists and line break assists, even though his kicking game was weak. The payoff was that Fien's kicking game could compensate (to a degree) for Rovelli's hopeless 5th tackle options. Last night we found out what happens when Fien has a bad kicking game and thus there's no compensation for Rovelli's bad kicking. In essence, we went from an average kicking game in previous weeks to an abysmal one.

In weeks gone by:
Rovelli's kicking game: -5
Fien's kicking game: +5
Total: 0 (average; balanced out for the most part)

Against the Rabbitohs:
Rovelli's kicking game: -5
Fien's kicking game: -5
Total: -10 (words can't describe...)

But the thing is, Rovelli should never have been in a position to improve over the last week, because although he provided improvement between rounds 16 and 20, (Tigers to Storm - 7 try assists, 4 line break assists), he hadn't done enough to be on the field in the first place. Rounds 1 to 14, (Storm to Sharks), he had the same tally: 7 try assists, 4 line breaks.

2007:
23 matches
12 try assists (0.522 per match)
6 line break assists (0.261 per match)

2008 - Rounds 1 to 14:
13 matches
7 try assists (0.538 per match)
4 line break assists (0.308 per match)

2008 - Rounds 16 to 20:
4 matches
7 try assists (1.750 per match)
4 line break assists (1.000 per match)

That's why people were saying he had improved. But he should never have been given the chance, and even having improved, he's still well below par.

Unfortunately, Witt isn't brilliant, either. He's just the lesser of two evils, for the lack of a better analogy. At least he can kick goals, though...
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
Lance Hohia to halfback has to happen, he scored two tries and set up the other one. Wade to fullback, rovelli back to aussie
I would be happy with Fein at 7 and Lance at 6 aswell
If Wades not available, Kirk to fullback or Kevin Locke

How many of those were through Lance's """"excellent"""" kicking game? All season when Lance has come up into the line to play a bit of ball he's done one of two things - one, support around the middle and do it quite well (not to McKinnon's level, but he's done very well filling in all things considered) and two, try and put in a kick that not even he knows is on.

This is where some of our fans fall down. We don't learn. Fien was ordinary in the halves before, he's not much better now. We're crying out for Witt, although he wasn't that good. The only one we're consistent on is Rovelli, and he's sadly the best of the lot. Next thing we'll start hearing the Ropati to 6 Hohaia to 7 theory.

For the record, Lance's try was bursting through a tackle off a Rovelli pass, the other one off the back of a Vatuvei offload after the ball went through a quick spread, and the one he set up for Ropati where he drew the fullback well was off the back of a quick piece of play by Wiki.
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
The difference is Rovelli has been consistently poor for the better part of 18 months now and yet he keeps getting a free pass. That's what's grating on my nerves.

I agree.

But who is the replacement?

Fien? No.
Witt? No.
Hohaia? Definitely not.
Ropati? Definitely not.

It's not Ivan's selections that are costing us, it's poor recruitment. I think Ivan and Wayne Scurrah made some blunders in selecting their halves for the top 25. I think it was you who put up our close wins where we dominated, and you are 100% right. But there's no one in the top 25 who's capable of doing the job. They've all had a chance, and sadly the most reliable, kicking aside, is Rovelli. The others are very ordinary halves. Hohaia is a good fullback and a good hooker, Fien is a decent hooker, Witt is an ordinary five eighth but an outstanding goal kicker and I still believe Ropati is a very capable centre. I hope he gained some confidence from last night because aside from that bombed try off Tate's pressure pass I thought he was quite good.
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
You're a bit hard on Manu there, it was a bloody good kick that probably no winger back in the pocket would have got by a halfback I'd trade half our team for.

He was back there already. He had already dropped back. But then he dropped the after burners when he needed to get back on his skates.
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
The game was lost before lastnights team even took the park. All you people that are defending Cleary, can you explain to the rest of us how even for a second Rovelli is a better player than Witt? Setting a side the blokes 90% + kicking rate Witt is a better footballer than Rovelli.

There is a growing number of us that are starting to believe that form is not the reason Rovelli is being selected and Cleary is putting his own agenda before what is best for the team.

I quote you from a thread on page two where someone lists what would be their team versus Souths, and they have Grant Rovelli as halfback.

Northern_Union said:
I still can't understand the Ropati selection but i'm happy with the rest of the team. My one and only wish is that Ivans cut Grants kicking boot off his foot and Hendo and Fien will do all the kicking.

So in actual fact, your only complaint on who was in the team was Jerome Ropati, who scrubbed up well I thought. Here you have a thread criticising Cleary for selecting Rovelli, but in another thread you claim you agree with another person selecting Rovelli as halfback.

According to Kid-Dynamite, Nathan Fien took 11 kicks, Grant Rovelli 5. So essentially Fien handled most of the kicking as well.
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
And back to the crux of the problem, Ivan is not selecting our best 17.

Northern_Union said:
I still can't understand the Ropati selection but i'm happy with the rest of the team. My one and only wish is that Ivans cut Grants kicking boot off his foot and Hendo and Fien will do all the kicking.

Again, aside from Ropati's selection that is largely the team you wanted. Inclusive of Grant Rovelli.
 

KeepingTheFaith_old

Guest
I agree.

But who is the replacement?

Fien? No.
Witt? No.
Hohaia? Definitely not.
Ropati? Definitely not.

It's not Ivan's selections that are costing us, it's poor recruitment. I think Ivan and Wayne Scurrah made some blunders in selecting their halves for the top 25. I think it was you who put up our close wins where we dominated, and you are 100% right. But there's no one in the top 25 who's capable of doing the job. They've all had a chance, and sadly the most reliable, kicking aside, is Rovelli. The others are very ordinary halves. Hohaia is a good fullback and a good hooker, Fien is a decent hooker, Witt is an ordinary five eighth but an outstanding goal kicker and I still believe Ropati is a very capable centre. I hope he gained some confidence from last night because aside from that bombed try off Tate's pressure pass I thought he was quite good.


Since about round 4 I've been saying we're no hope of winning the premiership. Our halves situation currently is a no win situation, from week to week we're pretty much throwing sh*t against the wall and hoping it sticks.

Fien and Witt are on the outer, but I'm terrified Rovelli is going to reach the 150 game mark for the Warriors, and on top of that any chance Moon has of making a real impact will be stifled with Rovelli at halfback.

I just can't help feeling that Cleary is desperate to find a reason to justify Rovelli's continued existence at the Warriors and that thought terrifies me not only for 2009 but beyond then as well, especially at a time when we'll have one of the strongest packs and potent backlines. We need a proper link between them.

As terrible as it sounds I could handle 7. Hohaia 6. Ropati for the rest of the year if it came with assurances Rovelli wouldn't be the half in 2009. I'm certainly not pro Witt or pro Fien in the halves because of their outstanding halves ability, I already know both of those guys are on the outer so they'd be temporary halves. Rovelli just feels permanent in a team that's so close to becoming a genuine threat from 1-17. It's like having the hottest girl in the world with a giant third eye sized wart smack bang in the middle of her forehead.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
I agree.

But who is the replacement?

Fien? No.
Witt? No.
Hohaia? Definitely not.
Ropati? Definitely not.

It's not Ivan's selections that are costing us, it's poor recruitment. I think Ivan and Wayne Scurrah made some blunders in selecting their halves for the top 25. I think it was you who put up our close wins where we dominated, and you are 100% right. But there's no one in the top 25 who's capable of doing the job. They've all had a chance, and sadly the most reliable, kicking aside, is Rovelli. The others are very ordinary halves. Hohaia is a good fullback and a good hooker, Fien is a decent hooker, Witt is an ordinary five eighth but an outstanding goal kicker and I still believe Ropati is a very capable centre. I hope he gained some confidence from last night because aside from that bombed try off Tate's pressure pass I thought he was quite good.

He had a good game, and that try was bombed moreso by Tate than by Ropati.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
Since about round 4 I've been saying we're no hope of winning the premiership. Our halves situation currently is a no win situation, from week to week we're pretty much throwing sh*t against the wall and hoping it sticks.

Fien and Witt are on the outer, but I'm terrified Rovelli is going to reach the 150 game mark for the Warriors, and on top of that any chance Moon has of making a real impact will be stifled with Rovelli at halfback.

I just can't help feeling that Cleary is desperate to find a reason to justify Rovelli's continued existence at the Warriors and that thought terrifies me not only for 2009 but beyond then as well, especially at a time when we'll have one of the strongest packs and potent backlines. We need a proper link between them.

As terrible as it sounds I could handle 7. Hohaia 6. Ropati for the rest of the year if it came with assurances Rovelli wouldn't be the half in 2009. I'm certainly not pro Witt or pro Fien in the halves because of their outstanding halves ability, I already know both of those guys are on the outer so they'd be temporary halves. Rovelli just feels permanent in a team that's so close to becoming a genuine threat from 1-17. It's like having the hottest girl in the world with a giant third eye sized wart smack bang in the middle of her forehead.

Let's not even think about 2010. No Price, but we still have Rovelli. Lol. *cries*
 

Northern_Union

Guest
Again, aside from Ropati's selection that is largely the team you wanted. Inclusive of Grant Rovelli.

actually no i was never happy with Rovelli in the team and have probably posted 1000 posts on why Rovelli needs to go. Up until yesterday i was sick of arguing with people on why Rovelli is no good. You seem to have used some artistic liecence by claiming i was happy with Rovelli in the team, i was never happy with Rovelli in the team but like most others i was hoping against hope that Rovelli would turn up against the Bunnies. I'm happy with the current team with the exception of Rovelli.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
Mate, that's not what you said in the team lineup thread. No artistic license from Feka from what I can tell. It looks like a full quote. You said that apart from Ropati being on the bench, (presumably in place of Witt), you were happy with the team.
 

Northern_Union

Guest
Couldn't give a toss what i said in another thread. Rovelli is killing us. Cleary is not selceting the best team available and Ropati is offering little to what ever position he plays.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
I disagree that Ropati was bad last night. He was forced to come into the match early and performed very well on the wing. One try was bombed, but that was more Tate's fault that Ropati's. He was good on cleanup again, as per usual.
 

KeepingTheFaith_old

Guest
Let's not even think about 2010. No Price, but we still have Rovelli. Lol. *cries*

I'm thinking about 2009. I'm terrified round 1 is going to have Rovelli in the 7 jumper. I'm even more terrified it's going to continue beyond 2009 when everywhere else on the park we've got a premiership capable team.

Right now I've just got that sinking feeling that the premiership boat is leaving without us even bothering to reach the port.
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
Couldn't give a toss what i said in another thread. Rovelli is killing us. Cleary is not selceting the best team available and Ropati is offering little to what ever position he plays.

Northern_Union said:
I still can't understand the Ropati selection but i'm happy with the rest of the team. My one and only wish is that Ivans cut Grants kicking boot off his foot and Hendo and Fien will do all the kicking.

And then contrasted with...

Northern_Union said:
Open letter to Ivan Cleary.

Ivan Cleary, for weeks you have persisted with your selection of Grant Rovelli. Rovelli in his defence has improved his general play to about NRL standards. However, you continue to select Rovelli as a general play kicker, to be honest Grants kicking in general play has been appalling and the team, our Warriors, have been winning despite Rovelli's general play kicking.

You have relagated Michael Witt to the Vulcans, not only was Witt in better form than Rovelli generally but is a far better general play kicker also. Witt offers organization in attack and creative play when the forwards are going forward. Michael Witt also has a career kicking percentage of 90%, easily the best in the NRL.

You have persisted with Grant Rovelli at 7 and left Lance Hohaia to carry out the kicking duties. Hoahaia has a career kicking percentage of around 65%, some 25% lower than Witts.

Tonight Ivan you left Witt out of the squade again and Hohaia was given the kicking duties again. Lance missed a relatively simple kick at goal and Souths won by 2 points.

You Ivan Cleary, with your bizarre selections, have cost the match tonight. You need to have a look at yourself tonight and ask yourself if your selecting the best available side for the Vodafone Warriors or are you selecting for political and face saving reasons?

All I will say is hindsight is a beautiful thing. Because before the event you are quoted as confirming agreement with Rovelli being halfback, post match you have blamed the coach for making a decision you claimed to support. I swear by oath I have used no license whatsoever to change your quotes, it's what you yourself said.
 

playdaball_old

Guest
IAccording to Kid-Dynamite, Nathan Fien took 11 kicks, Grant Rovelli 5. So essentially Fien handled most of the kicking as well.

Exactly Ravs has to get in a position to direct play. He paseed the ball on a few occasions as he was in a crap position to kick.

Fien was not great either at kicking.
 

attila_the_gorilla

Guest
Has anyone wondered why we've turned into a boring side to watch? All we got these days is metre eaters, hole runners, dummy half runs and that comes down to the players around Rovelli carrying him.

Unfortunately we have none of those. We don`t have that kind of culture at the club. I often get the feeling that our players instinctively run AT defenders even if there`s a hole to run into. The brainless hit-up grind.
 

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