General Ivan Cleary Newsflash

Jesbass_old

Guest
What about the Paramatta Eels in 2006 or 2007, they were useless under Brian Smith for a couple of seasons prior to his mid season dumping, then he got replaced with his assistant Jason Taylor - then all of a sudden they started winning games and got into the finals. New team selections for example Jarrod Hayne, Smith didnt want to pick the young kid on the wing, then as soon as Taylor became coach he picked him for every game and was a revelation, try scoring freak in his first year, I guess all thanks to a new coach.

The Warriors could do with a change, there might be some improvement from last year, but not progressing fast enough, its time for a change, it will be good for the players and the club in general. A fresh new start is whats needed, the players arent responding and they look stale and average, a new coach I feel will change that, it will benifit the young guys in the team, they will grow and develope more under a new coach with fresh ideas, new environment, new tactics, it will be a good change for the exprience guys too who will find a new lease of life.

Theres good arguments for and against the dumping of Ivan, I feel if we stick with Ivan we will be heading in the same direction as we are now, average results. This club can do a lot better than that.

How much of a direction change do you think adding the likes of Mannering, Vatuvei, Lillyman, Price, Seymour etc would be when we have a fully fit squad? Not enough?
 

garyhobson_old

Guest
How much of a direction change do you think adding the likes of Mannering, Vatuvei, Lillyman, Price, Seymour etc would be when we have a fully fit squad? Not enough?

There is no doubt about it having those guys back will make the team a whole lot stronger. Even with those guys back we are still running the same old plays, no players hitting gaps, or running good lines, creative attacking moves, its still the same, thats Ivan's job as coach to implement that, and hes not, its the same every week, and the job is made harder with having those guys out. Injuries are part of the game, and all teams go through it having players out for extended periods, the years we have made the finals under Ivan Cleary we had been very lucky with injuries, pretty much an injury free run with our players with the odd exception. The true test for Ivan has been this season and last. The players we have got left now are Ivans players that he wanted in the team and that he bought, no excuses for that.

This team needs a change of coach, it will be good for the players, its old and stale at the moment, and not going anywhere with Ivan, a fresh new start is whats required, it will bring a change of attitude, enthusism, new way of looking at things, different plan of attack, and under a good coach some of these young up and coming players will reach their potential.

Tell me why you would retain Ivan?
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
There is no doubt about it having those guys back will make the team a whole lot stronger. Even with those guys back we are still running the same old plays, no players hitting gaps, or running good lines, creative attacking moves, its still the same, thats Ivan's job as coach to implement that, and hes not, its the same every week, and the job is made harder with having those guys out. Injuries are part of the game, and all teams go through it having players out for extended periods, the years we have made the finals under Ivan Cleary we had been very lucky with injuries, pretty much an injury free run with our players with the odd exception. The true test for Ivan has been this season and last. The players we have got left now are Ivans players that he wanted in the team and that he bought, no excuses for that.

This team needs a change of coach, it will be good for the players, its old and stale at the moment, and not going anywhere with Ivan, a fresh new start is whats required, it will bring a change of attitude, enthusism, new way of looking at things, different plan of attack, and under a good coach some of these young up and coming players will reach their potential.

Tell me why you would retain Ivan?

I'm not sure that I necessarily would. I'm a patient man who likes to weigh up all the factors before making a decision. (I'm not saying you aren't, of course.) I'd consider how the team had gone over the season and then line it up against what the goals set out at the beginning of the season were. Then I'd consider the factors that contributed to our final position, no matter how high up or low down on the ladder we finished, and then weigh up how that lines up against the coach's contract.

At the moment, we're seeing a snapshot of 2010. Three weeks ago it looked pretty good. Now, it isn't looking so great. Somebody could point to the results at face value as a failure so far. Someone else could point to the injuries. Yet another person could say that the injuries alone don't explain the form. And on we go. By the end of the season, we'll know if we managed to turn it around or not.

Obvious questions I'd love to know the answers to, (but can only speculate on), would be:
- What are this season's goals? Was it to win the grand final / make the grand final / make the finals series / mid-table finish / avoid the spoon? Was it just to bounce back from 2009? How do we define "bounce back"?
- Have we achieved the goals? Did we ace everything? Did we fail to achieve them? If so, how close did we get?
- What were our other goals in terms of recruitment, retaining players, and how we worked in the media? Did we achieve them?
- If we failed to achieve our goals, who is to blame? Is it solely Cleary? Is it solely the players? Does management take some of the blame?
- If we failed to achieve our goals, does it warrant terminating Cleary's fixed term contract? If so, who is available, willing and skilled enough to replace him? If not, what do we do to achieve our goals in 2011?

Cleary made an awful mistake in 2009. He's openly admitted that. 2010 will serve to show whether or not he has learned from the lessons that ensued.

That's a longer term standpoint. I wouldn't call for a mid-season sacking by any stretch of the imagination. But as for 2011, the jury's still out and I'm awaiting the rest of the evidence.
 

The strummer_old

Guest
Thought it was very interesting what Cameron Smith had to say on NRL Tactics last night.He said until they played the Warriors the Storm had only managed 8 offloads in the season.Also was mentioned that Bellamy,for the first time in eight years he had not spent hours poring over video footage andformulating plans.The new dont give a stuff,may as well enjoy it attitude has changed the way they play for sure.Hard to replicate when the pressure is on.Wonder what their style might be next year?
 

garyhobson_old

Guest
I'm not sure that I necessarily would. I'm a patient man who likes to weigh up all the factors before making a decision. (I'm not saying you aren't, of course.) I'd consider how the team had gone over the season and then line it up against what the goals set out at the beginning of the season were. Then I'd consider the factors that contributed to our final position, no matter how high up or low down on the ladder we finished, and then weigh up how that lines up against the coach's contract.

At the moment, we're seeing a snapshot of 2010. Three weeks ago it looked pretty good. Now, it isn't looking so great. Somebody could point to the results at face value as a failure so far. Someone else could point to the injuries. Yet another person could say that the injuries alone don't explain the form. And on we go. By the end of the season, we'll know if we managed to turn it around or not.

Obvious questions I'd love to know the answers to, (but can only speculate on), would be:
- What are this season's goals? Was it to win the grand final / make the grand final / make the finals series / mid-table finish / avoid the spoon? Was it just to bounce back from 2009? How do we define "bounce back"?
- Have we achieved the goals? Did we ace everything? Did we fail to achieve them? If so, how close did we get?
- What were our other goals in terms of recruitment, retaining players, and how we worked in the media? Did we achieve them?
- If we failed to achieve our goals, who is to blame? Is it solely Cleary? Is it solely the players? Does management take some of the blame?
- If we failed to achieve our goals, does it warrant terminating Cleary's fixed term contract? If so, who is available, willing and skilled enough to replace him? If not, what do we do to achieve our goals in 2011?

Cleary made an awful mistake in 2009. He's openly admitted that. 2010 will serve to show whether or not he has learned from the lessons that ensued.

That's a longer term standpoint. I wouldn't call for a mid-season sacking by any stretch of the imagination. But as for 2011, the jury's still out and I'm awaiting the rest of the evidence.

The goal should be to win the premiership, its as simple as that, if thats not the main goal of this team then theres something wrong. I dont see any point in having a team in the nrl if their aim isnt to win the premiership.

The blame shouldnt be on the players, the players that are there are the players Ivan wanted in the squad, hes the one that choose them. He's been incharge of this club for a while now, hes developed this squad to what it is now. Its a good roster, not the best Warriors team but its a good squad which is capable of making the finals, and from there anything is possible with a bit of momentum, hard work, some smart coaching and luck. From the games this season the effort is there by the players, but they are being outplayed be smarter oppositions who are playing the better style of play, sometimes we are getting smashed in the forwards, some work needs to be done there, more aggression and robust players.

Wheather or not we give Ivan till the middle of the season or the end of the season, i dont think it will change anything, its a long term problem, its his coaching style, his coaching style doesnt suit the players we have, they arent responding to him. Players are not improving and developing fast enough under his guidance.

The position should be given to Tony Iro at this stage.
 
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Jesbass_old

Guest
Perhaps "expectations" would have been a better word than "goals". Of course every team wants to win the competition - even Cronulla! Nobody wants to be there to make up the numbers. I suppose I was talking more about KPIs than the ultimate dream.
 

garyhobson_old

Guest
Perhaps "expectations" would have been a better word than "goals". Of course every team wants to win the competition - even Cronulla! Nobody wants to be there to make up the numbers. I suppose I was talking more about KPIs than the ultimate dream.

Dont you think the expectations should be to win the premiership?
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
Dont you think the expectations should be to win the premiership?

I think it'd be hard to argue that 16 teams every year expect to win the Premiership. By all means, they must surely hope to win it, and they should believe that they can win it, but I don't think expecting that they will win would be realistic. If we expected to win the competition every year, that'd mean that we weren't shocked that we didn't in the recovery year A (2005), and most likely the recovery year B (2010).

Excluding the Storm for the obvious reason, I can't see 14 other teams coming out of this season, all shocked that they didn't win the Premiership.
 

mrblonde_old

Guest
Any clubs' expectations would be: Be better than last year
I mean, even after they handed Melbourne's head to them 40-0 in the NRL Grand Final in 2008, you would expect that some people in Manly chorussed "Yeah, but..."
When you've had a season like the Warriors did last year the measurement of improvement is bloody obvious - win more games, which everyone can see the acheivement of/nonacheivement of on the scoreboard.
When you've had a season where you've just won the NRL Grand Final (Mr Rort will be ignored for the purposes of this post), the measurement of improvement might be something minute that some fans won't even notice until someone points them out.
 

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