General Is this the twilight of democracy?

bruce

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Sep 1, 2015
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Hard to say whether defecting from the commonwealth would affect trade deals or relations with Britain. I think it’s also safe to say that following an American type system with senates etc is nothing to strive towards.
Good point about the trade deals.

They didn't care when they farked our economy 50 years ago when they chose the EU for trade deals.

That was when we still had veterans alive who fought to save them from the Nazis. The same with the French who then bombed a Greenpeace ship in Auckland.

Boris Johnson is just a much milder form of Donald Trump, he doesn't have many friends, and he is believer in the British Empire, which has long gone.

The realty is Britain belongs in Europe, it makes more sense. So I am sure the wise heads are not getting carried away with the promise of these deals, which haven't actually eventuated yet.

As for the use of the monarchy, the Queen sacked Gough Whitlam, with the support of Prince Charles, just saying like. Many Aussies remember.
 

bruce

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Sep 1, 2015
20,345
I am not a Monarchist, but see how it is valuable to Britain.
Britain can have her, I don't want her and I suspect most Kiwis don't.

She has a lot of admirable traits, and has been immensely devoted to the nation and especially the commonwealth.

However she is a very old woman, has made a massive mistake supporting her paedo son, and the knives are out.
 

Noitall

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 21, 2019
2,693
Good point about the trade deals.

They didn't care when they farked our economy 50 years ago when they chose the EU for trade deals.

That was when we still had veterans alive who fought to save them from the Nazis. The same with the French who then bombed a Greenpeace ship in Auckland.

Boris Johnson is just a much milder form of Donald Trump, he doesn't have many friends, and he is believer in the British Empire, which has long gone.

The realty is Britain belongs in Europe, it makes more sense. So I am sure the wise heads are not getting carried away with the promise of these deals, which haven't actually eventuated yet.

As for the use of the monarchy, the Queen sacked Gough Whitlam, with the support of Prince Charles, just saying like. Many Aussies remember.
I largely agree with what you’re saying, but a small country like ours can’t hold onto the past in order to progress, I’m not saying we should ever forget. I can’t see Britain ever going back to the EU after some countries through Europe are leaning towards being authoritarian regimes, it makes sense that countries such as us and Britain and any other democratic countries stay close as democracy wanes. Where that leaves our trade deals with China, I’m not sure, though I don’t like our chances of cutting them ever easily if issues arise. America has a lot to answer for with where we sit after snatching away free trade deals time after time in the final hours of discussions. All because we had the balls to stand up and say you’re not welcome in your nuclear ships.
 

wizards rage

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 18, 2016
5,084
Tauranga
Well if the country breaks away from the monarchy.. Does the Treaty of Waitangi get ripped up.. this would certainly open a can of worms, Democracy or what's left of it would be put to the test, I would imagine..
I always find it interesting that the treaty has so much relevance today when it is an archaic document between Maori tribes and the king of England.

We live in a strong democracy. We are independent of England. The queen is already irrelevant. Most ‘pakeha’ are kiwis not English. Most immigrants are not from England.
 

Gizzyfan

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Jan 2, 2013
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I always find it interesting that the treaty has so much relevance today when it is an archaic document between Maori tribes and the king of England.

We live in a strong democracy. We are independent of England. The queen is already irrelevant. Most ‘pakeha’ are kiwis not English. Most immigrants are not from England.

That s a bit like saying he American Constitution should be scrapped. The Treaty, when looked at from the times it was signed, was an amazingly forward looking document.. The problems with are mainly over translation and have been hijacked by those who have made an industry about it,
 

wizards rage

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Apr 18, 2016
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That s a bit like saying he American Constitution should be scrapped. The Treaty, when looked at from the times it was signed, was an amazingly forward looking document.. The problems with are mainly over translation and have been hijacked by those who have made an industry about it,
Im not saying it didn’t have a place at the time. Im not saying scrap it.

But it’s irrelevant applying it in today’s democratic society. The original partner - the English monarch, has no say in NZ.
 
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matiunz

This year yet?
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Jul 15, 2013
8,793
Sydney
There is no need for a Commonwealth. If the British want the Queen that is their choice.

I was talking to a dedicated Royalist friend last week. He was really pissed off with my attitude and reckons having the Queen as head of state is better than having a President.

WTF??

That just means a a nation we are so fecking immature we have to have a head of state from a small island off the coast of Belgium.

I told him fear not, and Charles knows already, this fuss over Andrew and Epstein could bring the royalty down...starting with the Commonwealth.

Charles could not give a shite about the Commonwealth, or probably England north of Watford, but he likes the pomp and ceremony that goes with the job.

My bet is he will not be King of New Zealand or Australia.
Yeah Liz seems to be the last real relic of the commonwealth and is still held in high esteem in general. Once she’s gone though…
William has brought a bit of fresh air but can’t see Charles commanding the same respect
 
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bruce

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Sep 1, 2015
20,345
I always find it interesting that the treaty has so much relevance today when it is an archaic document between Maori tribes and the king of England.

We live in a strong democracy. We are independent of England. The queen is already irrelevant. Most ‘pakeha’ are kiwis not English. Most immigrants are not from England.
That is why Maori value the monarchy. The treaty is with the crown.
 

bruce

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Sep 1, 2015
20,345
William has brought a bit of fresh air but can’t see Charles commanding the same respect
William is an arrogant prat, same as his brother. As for Charles, the guy used to associate with paedos himself.

The royal family is a bunch of inbred Germans, time to move on.
 
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bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
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Sep 1, 2015
20,345
Anne is OK, it seems the balls are on the female side of the Royals, she did make the Olympic team.
Anne is ok, not up herself and seems to have something between her ears.

Maybe she was not a indulged as the boys, but the stories about Harry and William are not great either. Just a couple of spoiled brats.

The point is why should our head of state be a descendant of inbred German princes. It s only because Germany had so many small states that they had so much royalty, and so many to inbreed with.

Heyzeuss the Royal family still have German traditions at Christmas.

The empire was screwed after WWII, actually it was in trouble after WWI. The commonwealth is bullshit, that is something that Rob Muldoon was correct about, and he was a royalist.

Ok, our system would in theory allow a crazy Prime Minister to appoint a crazy Governor General/President, but many think Charles is crazy anyway so why worry.

Rant over.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
23,374
Eric the Eel is right up there
Great story. Luckily a bunch of swimming officials in Blacktown saw he could not swim and rappidly set about teaching him how to dive and how to breath...the literal lessons for beginners-*.

Still, knowing how far that is to swim when basically you barely....really cannot swim...was epic.

His helpers actually did not think it was possible for him to complete the race.
 

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