General I have a crystal ball and I know where our club is heading...

[Wiki_old]

Here is Cooper Vuna in the Sunday News after he left the Warriors:

"The week before I left the Warriors I told Sonny, 'Man we have to move. We have to find somewhere else because we ain't gonna get a crack at the Warriors',"

"He said, 'Well you make the first move and I will try to follow'.

"I made the first move. Then he said he would stay at the Warriors."

So there you have it first hand. What does this prove? That this culture of thought is ingrained in the development of our future Warriors players. Not only that but Vuna also complained about the level of Australians being brought over when there are guys waiting in the wings.

I guess: Play our players or risk them and the fans going elsewhere.

Short and sweet.

 

[commonsense_old]

is this actually true??

did vuna really say that or are did u just make it up for arguement sake?

 

[Joe 90_old]

is this actually true??

did vuna really say that or are did u just make it up for arguement sake?

Yeah commonsense. This is definitely what was reported and certainly had me questioning the wisdom of using only 1 rookie this year.

 

[Wiki_old]

I copied it word for word, point for point.

That is exactly what he said.

 

[tookeytookey_old]

Can I ask where Cooper Vuna is now?

Because he isn't in first grade at the Knights this week.

 

[Joe 90_old]

Can I ask where Cooper Vuna is now?

Because he isn't in first grade at the Knights this week.

At a club currently in 6th spot as opposed to 13th who have given a fair few rookies a run lately.

 

[tookeytookey_old]

Scrap that, found the answer.

He's in Premier League, played one first grade game up at the Knights, got manhandled by Tate, and has failed to fire in Premier League since.

These are some of the word for word appraisals for his one game in first grade

* You could see after the first minutes of the 2nd half that they had given up, hell when Vuna made 2 steps towards Tate and then let him run by with a pissy hand stretched out effort it said it all for me.

* Absolutely disgraceful, Cooper Vuna is disgraceful

* Cooper Vanu? God help us.



....

Got a lot of work to do. Let me also tell you, he isn't the only one who's skipped the Warriors ranks believing the hype. There's a number over here from our system playing Premier League, Jim Beam Cup etc. who never amount to what some in the local ranks think they should believe in.

 

[tookeytookey_old]

At a club currently in 6th spot as opposed to 13th who have given a fair few rookies a run lately.

David Myles is in the squad for the Titans too. Doesn't mean he's going great guns.

Cooper Vuna as above was axed after one very poor game. And has failed to light up in Premier League since. I'm not going to slash my wrists over his departure just yet. Let's give him a bit of time. Let's also not forget they were similar comments from the ones Motu Tony made when he left, and similarly, life didn't last long at his next club as he was superceded by a bloke named Hunt, nor has he really established himself into the player many of us thought he would up in the softer ESL. It's not all as it seems. First grade is a tough proposition.

 

[Joe 90_old]

David Myles is in the squad for the Titans too. Doesn't mean he's going great guns.

Cooper Vuna as above was axed after one very poor game. And has failed to light up in Premier League since. I'm not going to slash my wrists over his departure just yet. Let's give him a bit of time. Let's also not forget they were similar comments from the ones Motu Tony made when he left, and similarly, life didn't last long at his next club as he was superceded by a bloke named Hunt, nor has he really established himself into the player many of us thought he would up in the softer ESL. It's not all as it seems. First grade is a tough proposition.

Never said he was going great guns. But i bet he's grateful for the OPPERTUNITY Brian Smith gave him as are a number of their other rookies.

 

[sebastian_old]

Some of Ivan's selctions/non selections this year have made me so confused & frustrated especially since last year he was announcing we are a "development club". He debuted a number of rookies succsesfully & we had a solid year. We have developed no one this year & it makes me very nervous about our future, he's not acting like the same coach as last year & i don't know why but i wish he'd snap out of it, our seasons on the line.

 

[tookeytookey_old]

No doubt he's grateful. But I'd rather have players performing.

Bear in mind I do not get to see the Lions in action, but two players I have heard had difficulties in defence coming out of the line a lot putting their team mates under pressure. Fai, and Vuna.

I wanted Vuna to succeed at the Warriors, what I saw first up I really liked. I saw him live at Penrith, and was quite impressed with his balance and agility. The thing is you have to earn your opportunities the hard way - it's like the Hohaia debate, whenever the kid gets into first receiver he either makes a great run or he turns over costly ball with a poor kick. It's never consistent. To grab those jumpers you need to be consistently strong. It's a great pity the Lions aren't performing currently as they could be forcing pressure on the first graders and forcing changes in selection, however we all forget that that just isn't happening and I think human nature all makes us urge for change in failures without knowledge of whats the next option.

I also think the likes of Vuna, Fai will benefit long term from the advent of the Lions and Under 20. I really feel the likes of Cooper and Sonny have been badly let down by the Mick Watson regime who did not secure our future by putting us into Premier League. We rested on our laurrels. The raw talent here is still here, but as is being shown in Premier League it needs constant refinement in the lower leagues in the Australian comps before it is often ready to step up. Perhaps Cooper's defensive difficulties, or the 'Toopi'isms I hear that were in his game would have been cleared with more experience in Premier League where those mistakes are found out harsher than Bartercard. With that in mind, it wouldn't surpise if Cooper's career turns around, and he becomes a good first grader in a year or two, like I think Sonny Fai, Scott Jones, Leeson Ah Mau, Kevin Locke, Malo Solomona and the likes will, due to the benefits gained from exposure in the Australian lower levels where they will refine their skills.

Turning juniors into stars isn't an overnight sensation, not even Inglis, Slater, heck Lockyer and the likes turn up stars. They have a load of raw ability that is refined into the complete package in junior development, through hard competition. That to me is the crux of what this club has lacked in the past. It will not pay dividends in round 13 of this year's competition. And it might not even pay dividends in Sonny Fai's time. But I expect the advent of the Lions and the Under 20's to increase the NZ % of players in the Warriors club, and secondly the success rate of this club. Without a solid base, a house falls over - the Watson regime tended to neglect that in my view.

 

[tookeytookey_old]

Some of Ivan's selctions/non selections this year have made me so confused & frustrated especially since last year he was announcing we are a "development club". He debuted a number of rookies succsesfully & we had a solid year. We have developed no one this year & it makes me very nervous about our future, he's not acting like the same coach as last year & i don't know why but i wish he'd snap out of it, our seasons on the line.

Did we debut a lot of rookies last year?

From recollection we debuted Sam Rapira, Grant Rovelli, Misi Taulapapa and Patrick Ah Van. Not an excessive amount really. Most clubs will debut that amount in a season, and I suspect by the years end we will debut a couple.

You are right, we have announced ourselves as a development club. My perspective, as above is, it doesn't happen overnight. This competition we play in is brutal. Make no mistakes about it, the likes of Louis Anderson were fantastic Junior Kiwi's representatives. Nothing changes for Louis and other Warriors in comparison to clubs over the ditch, except the pathways we allow for them. In the Watson era, we gave them Bartercard. Good competition... but as hard, physical, quick and as professional as Premier League? Debatable. The 'development club' tag comes with enforcing lower grades, which we now have. I'd be surprised that we aren't sending more players to first grade out of our local ranks by the year 2010 then we are now. I'd also be surprised if by that stage this club is not a cornerstone consistent top four club, in the same vein as Brisbane. Brisbane are in a similar geographical position to us really, same raw talents, but we have lagged some ways behind the likes of them in providing hard learning curves for our youngsters. I'll take Cooper Vuna as an example, in the Knights game, you could tell he was a strong runner, a quick runner, however he was sorely shown on D a couple of times which to me is a hangover of not going through outstanding lower grades. Those outstanding lower grades (Premier League, what we hope to get out of Under 20's, or in Queensland the Queensland Cup) have a large focus not only on attack, but good halves organisation, and defensive awareness. A guy like Cooper Vuna in my opinion would be killing it in first grade right now if he had the proper exposure. That's not Cooper's fault, it's not even Ivan Cleary's fault, there's little either of those gentlemen could do about it, it comes down to previous management. IMO, Wayne Scurrah along with the likes of John Hart, Tony Iro and John Ackland are addressing that, but we have to be aware we lagged a very long way behind and it won't happen overnight. Nothing ever does, especially not a succession or development plan. Development takes considerable time. It's like a company introducing a sustainable development policy, the sustainable replacement developments they implement might not be noticed for 10-15 years and will be justly criticised, but long term it will work.

 

[Joe 90_old]

No doubt he's grateful. But I'd rather have players performing.

Bear in mind I do not get to see the Lions in action, but two players I have heard had difficulties in defence coming out of the line a lot putting their team mates under pressure. Fai, and Vuna.

I wanted Vuna to succeed at the Warriors, what I saw first up I really liked. I saw him live at Penrith, and was quite impressed with his balance and agility. The thing is you have to earn your opportunities the hard way - it's like the Hohaia debate, whenever the kid gets into first receiver he either makes a great run or he turns over costly ball with a poor kick. It's never consistent. To grab those jumpers you need to be consistently strong. It's a great pity the Lions aren't performing currently as they could be forcing pressure on the first graders and forcing changes in selection, however we all forget that that just isn't happening and I think human nature all makes us urge for change in failures without knowledge of whats the next option.

I also think the likes of Vuna, Fai will benefit long term from the advent of the Lions and Under 20. I really feel the likes of Cooper and Sonny have been badly let down by the Mick Watson regime who did not secure our future by putting us into Premier League. We rested on our laurrels. The raw talent here is still here, but as is being shown in Premier League it needs constant refinement in the lower leagues in the Australian comps before it is often ready to step up. Perhaps Cooper's defensive difficulties, or the 'Toopi'isms I hear that were in his game would have been cleared with more experience in Premier League where those mistakes are found out harsher than Bartercard. With that in mind, it wouldn't surpise if Cooper's career turns around, and he becomes a good first grader in a year or two, like I think Sonny Fai, Scott Jones, Leeson Ah Mau, Kevin Locke, Malo Solomona and the likes will, due to the benefits gained from exposure in the Australian lower levels where they will refine their skills.

Turning juniors into stars isn't an overnight sensation, not even Inglis, Slater, heck Lockyer and the likes turn up stars. They have a load of raw ability that is refined into the complete package in junior development, through hard competition. That to me is the crux of what this club has lacked in the past. It will not pay dividends in round 13 of this year's competition. And it might not even pay dividends in Sonny Fai's time. But I expect the advent of the Lions and the Under 20's to increase the NZ % of players in the Warriors club, and secondly the success rate of this club. Without a solid base, a house falls over - the Watson regime tended to neglect that in my view.

Jesus. No one ever ask Tooks for an indepth answer.

As usual though your logic cant be questioned. However, if there is a beleif amongst our promising players that they cant see any oppertunities arising for them at this club then that concerns me. As it should the coaching staff.

As for Fai, i'd still play him. Defence is'nt his strong point, thats for sure, but if he surrounded by the likes of Luck,Swann,Koopu then defensively he's pretty much covered. More importantly though he possesess a specific skill set that we badly lack at the moment and which can help us win games which just about everyone on this forum recognises. That is a linebreaking,ball playing backrower.

 

[Mone_old]

No doubt he's grateful. But I'd rather have players performing.

Bear in mind I do not get to see the Lions in action, but two players I have heard had difficulties in defence coming out of the line a lot putting their team mates under pressure. Fai, and Vuna.

I wanted Vuna to succeed at the Warriors, what I saw first up I really liked. I saw him live at Penrith, and was quite impressed with his balance and agility. The thing is you have to earn your opportunities the hard way - it's like the Hohaia debate, whenever the kid gets into first receiver he either makes a great run or he turns over costly ball with a poor kick. It's never consistent. To grab those jumpers you need to be consistently strong. It's a great pity the Lions aren't performing currently as they could be forcing pressure on the first graders and forcing changes in selection, however we all forget that that just isn't happening and I think human nature all makes us urge for change in failures without knowledge of whats the next option.

I also think the likes of Vuna, Fai will benefit long term from the advent of the Lions and Under 20. I really feel the likes of Cooper and Sonny have been badly let down by the Mick Watson regime who did not secure our future by putting us into Premier League. We rested on our laurrels. The raw talent here is still here, but as is being shown in Premier League it needs constant refinement in the lower leagues in the Australian comps before it is often ready to step up. Perhaps Cooper's defensive difficulties, or the 'Toopi'isms I hear that were in his game would have been cleared with more experience in Premier League where those mistakes are found out harsher than Bartercard. With that in mind, it wouldn't surpise if Cooper's career turns around, and he becomes a good first grader in a year or two, like I think Sonny Fai, Scott Jones, Leeson Ah Mau, Kevin Locke, Malo Solomona and the likes will, due to the benefits gained from exposure in the Australian lower levels where they will refine their skills.

Turning juniors into stars isn't an overnight sensation, not even Inglis, Slater, heck Lockyer and the likes turn up stars. They have a load of raw ability that is refined into the complete package in junior development, through hard competition. That to me is the crux of what this club has lacked in the past. It will not pay dividends in round 13 of this year's competition. And it might not even pay dividends in Sonny Fai's time. But I expect the advent of the Lions and the Under 20's to increase the NZ % of players in the Warriors club, and secondly the success rate of this club. Without a solid base, a house falls over - the Watson regime tended to neglect that in my view.

Melbourne is a team who give more chances for young players than any other club. Inglis debut was at 18 but he did go through Australian schoolboys etc but Slater was one of the rare ones he played league as a kid but was riding horses at the Waterhouse stable and only started playing league seriously in 2001 before debuting in 03.
I think they should give Fai a run now, I mean Luck does so much work in defence it must surely cover any lapses (if any I havnt seen any stats or seen enough games to judge for myself) that Sonny has.
What do we have to lose? better us give him a few games and find out he's not up to it, than another club taking him and proving he is.

 

[commonsense_old]

man if that is the mentality with the up and coming warriors i am pretty worried.

 

[moonfire_old]

#reread post and need to change it3

 

[Skinny_Ravs82]

man if that is the mentality with the up and coming warriors i am pretty worried.

Think of it in terms of a job. You been somewhere a while hoping to get that move up the list but it ever happens. Not because you aren't good enough but because there are others who seem to be better. So move on find somewhere else and see if you can succed there. Maybe it will work maybe it doesn't You just don't know until you try.

I can't blame these guys like Cooper for trying and as tookey as said, he haasn't exactly succeded yet. One bad game by the entire Knights team (mind you) doesn't define totally he's crap or anything. Far from it I think.

 

[tookeytookey_old]

Melbourne is a team who give more chances for young players than any other club. Inglis debut was at 18 but he did go through Australian schoolboys etc but Slater was one of the rare ones he played league as a kid but was riding horses at the Waterhouse stable and only started playing league seriously in 2001 before debuting in 03.
I think they should give Fai a run now, I mean Luck does so much work in defence it must surely cover any lapses (if any I havnt seen any stats or seen enough games to judge for myself) that Sonny has.
What do we have to lose? better us give him a few games and find out he's not up to it, than another club taking him and proving he is.

You are definitely right on the Storm. A lot of those players though came through their connections in Premier League/Queensland Cup through North Sydney Bears and now Norths Devils. It's still rare they come through without a bit of time in those leagues. However, they deserve due credit for their scouting in particular, which must go to Peter O'Sullivan. He's a very diligent recruitment and welfare manager.

 

[Jesbass_old]

Think of it in terms of a job. You been somewhere a while hoping to get that move up the list but it ever happens. Not because you aren't good enough but because there are others who seem to be better. So move on find somewhere else and see if you can succed there. Maybe it will work maybe it doesn't You just don't know until you try.

I can't blame these guys like Cooper for trying and as tookey as said, he haasn't exactly succeded yet. One bad game by the entire Knights team (mind you) doesn't define totally he's crap or anything. Far from it I think.

That means he wasn't good enough, pure and simple. Perhaps, in time, with his potential realised, he may have been, but he obviously wasn't prepared to wait that long in reserve grade.

 

[Skinny_Ravs82]

Yeah I guess he just wasn't. In time like you say. Hopefully one day we will see him come good and in the international scene too. I'd like to hope so, he has shown some form of potencial