General Henderson to Catalans

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KeepingTheFaith_old

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Lance will still be fullback next season, and we'll still have the same unbalanced backrow, with the same defense orientated game plan. We'll maintain a decent level of consistency because of it, but won't go anywhere near the premiership.

Bring on 2012.
 

Spence_old

Guest
Given the longevity of Ivans selection before a change is made from i've picked up we'll be seeing Lance at the back for the forseable future.

But you can counter that with his quote that he see's Locke as the long term fullback option.
 

KeepingTheFaith_old

Guest
I guess that depends on his definition of long term, and whether or not Locke is prepared to hang around for it.
 

DanKokoro_old

Guest
Lance will still be fullback next season, and we'll still have the same unbalanced backrow, with the same defense orientated game plan. We'll maintain a decent level of consistency because of it, but won't go anywhere near the premiership.

Bring on 2012.

I predict Lance is gonna have a little "accident" during the off season, and Kevin will be starting Fullback round 1.
 

EATASS_old

Guest
I predict Lance is gonna have a little "accident" during the off season, and Kevin will be starting Fullback round 1.

If you touch Lance...in a bad way. There'll be trouble. I'll hack your comp and delete your CS folder.
 

PB_old

Guest
Lance will still be fullback next season, and we'll still have the same unbalanced backrow, with the same defense orientated game plan. We'll maintain a decent level of consistency because of it, but won't go anywhere near the premiership.

Bring on 2012.

I'm unsure about that or not being competitive. I'm sure the defence will be there (after all, it is Ivan's nature), but our signings quite fit the defensive mould. Inu is a high-risk footballer. So is Mateo. They are not capable of being boring defensived-mined players or conforming to a similar plan.

I can't see why anyone would buy chancy, ad lib footballers without wanting to play a little chancy, ad lib football.

Add them to our other starting personnel, particularly Vatuvei, Ropati, Locke, and Maloney. I see an all-or-nothing backline that rides off Mateo's offloads, the rest of the pack's go-forward, and Luck and Mannering having to clean up a sizeable mess.

Again, why have two mop-up men if you aren't expecting to mop-up? I can only presume that he expects they'll have to.
 
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KeepingTheFaith_old

Guest
I'm unsure about that or not being competitive. I'm sure the defence will be there (after all, it is Ivan's nature), but our signings quite fit the defensive mould. Inu is a high-risk footballer. So is Mateo. They are not capable of being boring defensived-mined players or conforming to a similar plan.

I can't see why anyone would buy chancy, ad lib footballers without wanting to play a little chancy, ad lib football.

Add them to our other starting personnel, particularly Vatuvei, Ropati, Locke, and Maloney. I see an all-or-nothing backline that rides off Mateo's offloads, the rest of the pack's go-forward, and Luck and Mannering having to clean up a sizeable mess.

Again, why have two mop-up men if you aren't expecting to mop-up? I can only presume that he expects they'll have to.

We'll be competitive, should even make the finals, but still won't be able to take the next step required.

From your description it sounds like the weight of our attacking world will be firmly on Mateo's shoulders. Based on past form, that doesn't usually bring out the best in him.

Our backline is no less potent than this season, but without any punch on the fringes (Mannering and Luck playing 80 minutes each will serverly limit this) the defense is more likely to hold its shape.

The other key to unlocking defensive lines, the fullback, is still likely to be Lance who as fantastic as he is individually, isn't the sort of player we need. We need 2 playmakers, a fullback, not 2.5 playmakers.

Lastly, if we need two players who are there solely to mop up then there's something wrong with our defensive structure or the players attempting to execute it.

Hope I'm wrong, I really do, but I don't see there being massive changes to the personal we have now.
 

Fazz_old

Guest
I wish we could just play Mannering and Luck 40 minutes each at lock. Gives me the shits with them both being rubbish on attack. Mannering in general has been crap this year imo.

What at we looking at next year?

11 Mannering
12 Lillyman
13 Luck

With mateo on the bench and Tai'ai or brown missing out?
God that'd be frustrating.

hopefully it's more:

9 Mara (eventually becoming an 80 minute player)
...
11 Mannering
12 Mateo
13 luck

14 Tai'ai
15 Brown (Maybe as the utility hooker/centre/2nd row)
16 Matulino
17 Lillyman (you know he's gunna be in the team...)
 

PB_old

Guest
From your description it sounds like the weight of our attacking world will be firmly on Mateo's shoulders. Based on past form, that doesn't usually bring out the best in him.

Our backline is no less potent than this season, but without any punch on the fringes (Mannering and Luck playing 80 minutes each will serverly limit this) the defense is more likely to hold its shape.

The other key to unlocking defensive lines, the fullback, is still likely to be Lance who as fantastic as he is individually, isn't the sort of player we need. We need 2 playmakers, a fullback, not 2.5 playmakers.

Lastly, if we need two players who are there solely to mop up then there's something wrong with our defensive structure or the players attempting to execute it.

Hope I'm wrong, I really do, but I don't see there being massive changes to the personal we have now.

I don't think the weight will all be on Mateo, but his strength is attracting defenders and offloading. So that's what he'll be expected to do, unless there is some other quality I'm missing.

Rapira also offloads, and Ta'ai has shown the ability to as well. We know Matulino has the potential to, and even Mannering has in the past.

Our backline has to be more potent next year. A combination of too many injuries, disruptions, and Tate kill cohesiveness and one side of the field respectively.

There are issues, but I can't see a totally boring and defensive gameplan happening. You don't hire Usain Bolt to run a marathon.

The backrow balance isn't ideal, but they are there and I'm looking for the reason. I'm not willing to stick the knife in Ivan simply because I don't agree.

I have to presume he has a plan, and presume that, as a professional coach, his plan will be better than mine.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
Just on the defensive aspect, I noticed today that in 2010 the Warriors have conceded the 2nd least running metres in the NRL, and the 8th least kicking metres, putting us in 4th when the two are combined.
 
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Spence_old

Guest
I wish we could just play Mannering and Luck 40 minutes each at lock. Gives me the shits with them both being rubbish on attack. Mannering in general has been crap this year imo.

What at we looking at next year?

11 Mannering
12 Lillyman
13 Luck

With mateo on the bench and Tai'ai or brown missing out?
God that'd be frustrating.

hopefully it's more:

9 Mara (eventually becoming an 80 minute player)
...
11 Mannering
12 Mateo
13 luck

14 Tai'ai
15 Brown (Maybe as the utility hooker/centre/2nd row)
16 Matulino
17 Lillyman (you know he's gunna be in the team...)

Why do you assume Lillyman will be the starting second rower? In Cleary's full strength team, ever since half way through last season, Lillyman has been a bench prop. Add to that we signed a starting second rower in Mateo (you don't pay $400,000 odd to play someone off the bench), why would Ivan go back on his preffered line up?
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
We'll be competitive, should even make the finals, but still won't be able to take the next step required.

From your description it sounds like the weight of our attacking world will be firmly on Mateo's shoulders. Based on past form, that doesn't usually bring out the best in him.

Our backline is no less potent than this season, but without any punch on the fringes (Mannering and Luck playing 80 minutes each will serverly limit this) the defense is more likely to hold its shape.

The other key to unlocking defensive lines, the fullback, is still likely to be Lance who as fantastic as he is individually, isn't the sort of player we need. We need 2 playmakers, a fullback, not 2.5 playmakers.

Lastly, if we need two players who are there solely to mop up then there's something wrong with our defensive structure or the players attempting to execute it.

Hope I'm wrong, I really do, but I don't see there being massive changes to the personal we have now.

I see it completely the other way. There is no denying Feleti Mateo is now producing his best form for Parramatta at this stage of the season. Coincidentally, he did the same thing last year also. I have a feeling that Feleti has felt the weight of the Parra-media critics on his shoulders trying to get him to play a little more safely. I don't think that's made him a bad player, he still makes a good deal of metres and still has some skill in him. However, Cleary has gone out on the record, or at least in Feleti's mind he has, as saying Feleti Mateo will be given free reign to play ball. Which is exactly the way Mateo has been playing the past 3-4 weeks where frankly he has been nothing short of lethal.

I actually see Feleti as being better for our balance for another reason altogether. We still favour our left side (we should naturally favour it to some degree as most players pass better right to left as it's a more right hand sided skill, and of course Manu is just so effective at taking half a chance and turning it into a try that he should not be ignored), but Mateo will evidently play on the right. This to me serves two goodidities (yes I made up a word, I feel so proud). Firstly, in defence... when Mannering defends on the left I feel a lot safer in D. Ropati and Vatuvei both come up and in in defence and can get exposed (although both have been better at this this year). Mannering is a more trusting defender, and is a defender outside backs can rely on to keep trailing across. It should add a little more patience to stabalise Ropo and Manu in D. Secondly, obviously we will play a bit more ball to the right side as Mateo's ball skills are there to be used. This should balance us out and make us a little more unpredictable in attack.
 

jahc_old

Guest
It's sad to see him go because i think he's been great this year. At the same time i'm super excited to see more of Mara because i thought he had a great debut on saturday and he looks like he's got all the requirements to start playing regular first grade. Loved when he went into the tackle holding the ball above his head with one hand..

To be honest i thought it was an absolute travesty that Mara was bought off for Heremaia when he was and i dare say it would've been a different result if Mara was left on for the rest of the game. He was adding some real spark and just looked totally in control. As soon as Heremaia came back on we seemed to drop a couple of gears.

As much as i liked Heremaia after round 3.. I've seen enough of him TBH. I just think we look like a boring team when he's on the field. For an impact hooking option, I think it'd like a little more impact..
Mara was making his 1st grade debut, he may have just needed a rest.

Heremaia has still got the goods. I remember when half the board was calling for Henderson to go last year. Bloody moaners. :)

When we let Rovelli, Witt AND Fein go, I thought they were nuts. But then they brought in Maloney, Seymour and Heremaia. I have faith that they've got a plan for next year. On that note, I hope Seluini gets a crack early on in 2011.