General Halves Discussion (this Year And Beyond)

On the Locke / Lockyer thing.....Lockyers evolution to Half was pretty unique as far as how successful it was.

Wayne Bennet is a visionary and ahead of his time, Lockyer had the mental aptitude of a great player, a ridiculously talented team around him with a culture of success.
Lockyer didn't go so well to begin with, Bennet was very patient, arguably he could afford to be.

The Idea on paper of Locke being the next Locky is appealing...a caution would be that the same conditions don't exist at the Warriors


Lockyer moved to 6 because they didn't have Shaun Johnson at 7....pretty simple really.
 
IMO now that Maloney is leaving for the Roosters will Bluey start priming our 2013 No 6 so that when Round 1 2013 comes along, our halves will be on the same page?

I understand we still have 2012 but at least whoever will be our No 6 will at least be on the bench. If its Tuimavave then he can fit right in imo.
 
I wouldn't be surprised to see Johnson at 6. Given how much he loves taking the line on, you'd think he'd benefit from being 2nd receiver and starting his runs a bit deeper a la Marshall. He can just as easily slot into 1st receiver on the last if a bomb is going to be the option. But yeah, it really depends on the style the team is going to play. JT has hardly been less effective for the Cowboys/QLD since moving to 6.

Unless I've gone completely blind 99% of the time the Warriors play left and right halves rather than a halfback and standoff formation. On how many occasions has Johnson crossed with Maloney to be first receiver on the right hand side this season?
 
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ToiletDuck

Administrator
Unless I've gone completely blind 99% of the time the Warriors play left and right halves rather than a halfback and standoff formation. On how many occasions has Johnson crossed with Maloney to be first receiver on the right hand side this season?


Yep. Because of the halves they have at present. TL is not Maloney, and this season is not next season. I don't think it'll happen, but I'd like to see Johnson receiving the ball deeper, with more room and time to take the line on. I think Marshall plays his best football at 2nd receiver, and I think Johnson often gets caught in this trap of crabbing across field once his initial plan/option is shut down.
 

Spence

Sgt. Pepper
Unless I've gone completely blind 99% of the time the Warriors play left and right halves rather than a halfback and standoff formation. On how many occasions has Johnson crossed with Maloney to be first receiver on the right hand side this season?

If you said that a month ago I would have agreed, but Johnson has definitely been playing on the right hand side linking up with Maloney - ever since the Broncos game, if my memory serves me right. Not all the game, but more than a couple of times.
 
Unless I've gone completely blind 99% of the time the Warriors play left and right halves rather than a halfback and standoff formation. On how many occasions has Johnson crossed with Maloney to be first receiver on the right hand side this season?


A lot more than last season...it's almost like Cleary drew a line down the middle of the field last season, and gave strict orders not to cross.
The only time i can remember Shaun Johnson on the right side was in the GF for the Taylor try, even then he drifted over from around the middle.
 
Yep. Because of the halves they have at present. TL is not Maloney, and this season is not next season. I don't think it'll happen, but I'd like to see Johnson receiving the ball deeper, with more room and time to take the line on. I think Marshall plays his best football at 2nd receiver, and I think Johnson often gets caught in this trap of crabbing across field once his initial plan/option is shut down.


Theres nothing wrong with crabbing across the field...if he has potential ball runners giving him options, sadly thats not happening yet, but in time, i think it
will be one of the Warriors real attacking weapons.
 

ToiletDuck

Administrator
Theres nothing wrong with crabbing across the field...if he has potential ball runners giving him options, sadly thats not happening yet, but in time, i think it
will be one of the Warriors real attacking weapons.

I don't mind it occasionally, and he does it well. It's the crabbing across field in front of a static defensive line and static support players that often looks totally disjointed and void of idea....usually after he's received the ball and been rushed by the opposition.
 
I don't mind it occasionally, and he does it well. It's the crabbing across field in front of a static defensive line and static support players that often looks totally disjointed and void of idea....usually after he's received the ball and been rushed by the opposition.

It certainly doesn't look great when he's skipping around looking for a runner, and no one's moving... he'll learn to just take the hit-up and reset play when the original
move goes bad, experience is a wonderful thing.
 
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Spence

Sgt. Pepper
I think that's my main gripe with the Warriors - the lack of line running giving Johnson options. He's the kind of half that needs options to play his best, especially his running game; he needs players to run holes to open up gaps. I was really liking what Taylor was doing at Lock, especially in the... Broncos game I think... always running back towards the ruck in the middle of the field, giving him the option to turn it back inwards, keeping the defensive line tight which opens up room outwide. I was excited to see Mateo move to lock, but I think they should switch back - I think it gives us better structure - especially as Mateo is our best hole runner on the fringes.
 
why cant we do a swap with the roasters you have maloney can we have young mortimer.because mortimer wont get any game time when maloney arrives so he will be in the same predicment he is in now behind perice and anasta.i think he is very talanted and would make good foil for Shaun Johnson.so come over and spread your wings i think he would thrive in the warriors inviroment.just like malooney did.imo TL is more of a hooker than 5/8 who knows they are only asumtions.and what about liam foran same boat behind his brother.tuff as nails to in the same mould as nathan fien not too flashey but as the teams back100%
 
Stick in the mud but McGahan's old man would probably advise him not to come here....he aint a big fan of the Warriors.

...He wouldn't get ago with the Storms first grade.. Hughiie was a past manager for the Warriors..you never know with his son given a good offer!
 
It certainly doesn't look great when he's skipping around looking for a runner, and no one's moving... he'll learn to just take the hit-up and reset play when the original
move goes bad, experience is a wonderful thing.

you mean it didnt look good when he was skipping around looking for a runner and ended up scoring a try (vs Roosters)??? Or when he completed turned Proctor inside out and put Brown in for "that try" against the Storm in the finals?

He is a touch player, touch players do this.
 
you mean it didnt look good when he was skipping around looking for a runner and ended up scoring a try (vs Roosters)??? Or when he completed turned Proctor inside out and put Brown in for "that try" against the Storm in the finals?

He is a touch player, touch players do this.

This is correct.

And I think he has already learnt to take the hit up and reset. He knows he doesnt have to score or set up a try every time he touches it like he did early on in his career. It's not as much experience as it is someone reminding him he doesn't have to be a magician every time and I think Ivan did this last year.
 

Inruin

Contributor
Theres nothing wrong with crabbing across the field...if he has potential ball runners giving him options, sadly thats not happening yet, but in time, i think it
will be one of the Warriors real attacking weapons.
it took the tigers a few seasons to get used to benji after scott prince left them and made him the main play maker. but now tim sheens has built a game plan around him and the tigers players know generally where marshall wants them. hopefully the wsrriors will turn into the same. i guess its hard because with cleary it was a fairly structured type style and Shaun Johnson is a play whats in front of you type player.once we get the outside guys knowing when to cut and when to stay outside will be good.

for a 6 i like travis burns or josh reynolds. probably not available but love those real solid, mongrel, tryer type players.
 
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it took the tigers a few seasons to get used to benji after scott prince left them and made him the main play maker. but now tim sheens has built a game plan around him and the tigers players know generally where marshall wants them. hopefully the wsrriors will turn into the same. i guess its hard because with cleary it was a fairly structured type style and Shaun Johnson is a play whats in front of you type player.once we get the outside guys knowing when to cut and when to stay outside will be good.

for a 6 i like travis burns or josh reynolds. probably not available but love those real solid, mongrel, tryer type players.


Yeah it takes awhile for players to get used to a ball player like Shaun Johnson and what he needs from his team mates...that said, if your team keeps dropping the ball and are
forced to defend for consecutive sets constantly, they wont have the energy to push up or run at those gaps as much as you'd hope they would, which i think
has been a major issue this season.

Errors not only put pressure huge pressure on your defense, they dampen a teams attack as well....those extra tackles always come back to haunt at the back end of
games.
 

Inruin

Contributor
Yeah it takes awhile for players to get used to a ball player like Shaun Johnson and what he needs from his team mates...that said, if your team keeps dropping the ball and are
forced to defend for consecutive sets constantly, they wont have the energy to push up or run at those gaps as much as you'd hope they would, which i think
has been a major issue this season.

Errors not only put pressure huge pressure on your defense, they dampen a teams attack as well....those extra tackles always come back to haunt at the back end of
games.
correct, as brian smith said after they played the knights. they got a lot of repeat sets but didnt score immediately off them. but back end of the game they scored and the knights were out of petrol from extra defending.
 
Not too keen on importing ' potential ' halves blooding them into first grade to the point where they are recognized starting 5/8 only to see once their stock rises they piss off back to Sydney. I agree with hitman82 at this point TL looks the best option with an under20 being mentored for the role at the same time.
As for Sezer we missed the boat there, not only will the Titans lock him down if he continues to play like he is but he will be on more than a few scouts radars now so likely bidding war.
 
While his line defense is pretty poor this year, his cover defense is still good...last year it was amazing.
.

Yeah, I was trying to remember what game it was last year where he almost won us the game (or saved us from defeat) by making a number of crucial covering tackles and big one on one tackles coming out of the line. He was literally everywhere (literally).

And very valid point you raise re: tackles stats.. % of missed tackles would give a much better comparison. If he's attempting more tackles than other halves then it stands to reason he's gonna be missing more. Besides the obvious 3, i don't think he makes many costly missed tackles.. Or put it this way.. i don't see him as a defensive liability as i USED to see Shaun Johnson..
Still it's something he definitely needs to be working on.

Stats question.. what's the difference between a missed tackle and an ineffective tackle?

Missed tackle is when you miss them cold, and ineffective tackle is when you participate in the tackle but aren't holding the player as the tackle is called?
 

Inruin

Contributor
Stats question.. what's the difference between a missed tackle and an ineffective tackle?

Missed tackle is when you miss them cold, and ineffective tackle is when you participate in the tackle but aren't holding the player as the tackle is called?
missed tackle is when they go through you, oppurtunity to tackle but dont. ineffective is when you actually make a tackle but they offload or you fall off them and they go again.
 

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