Internationals England vs Kiwis Series 2018

[matiunz]

Look at the all blacks. No one says that they poach Tongans, Samoans, cook islanders etc because they are classified as kiwis with other heritage and Nz develop them and make a name out of them. Not the other way around

All Blacks are CONSTANTLY having to dispel the myth that anyone that’s brown with a non-Maori surname is a “poach” particularly from those that don’t know the ethnic make up of NZ.
There’s a perception that we go on scouting missions to the islands to steal already developed players...

I get what you mean with the heritage thing, I think most people can lay claim to being eligible for a country other than what they identify themselves as. I feel the major difference is many pasifika people are only a generation or 2 removed so parent and grandparents have a stronger life influence in cultural identity.

I identify and practice with some of my Father and his parents (1st gen NZers from Europe) culture but I could never bring myself to play against NZ

 

[Juju]

All Blacks are CONSTANTLY having to dispel the myth that anyone that’s brown with a non-Maori surname is a “poach” particularly from those that don’t know the ethnic make up of NZ.
There’s a perception that we go on scouting missions to the islands to steal already developed players...

I get what you mean with the heritage thing, I think most people can lay claim to being eligible for a country other than what they identify themselves as. I feel the major difference is many pasifika people are only a generation or 2 removed so parent and grandparents have a stronger life influence in cultural identity.

I identify and practice with some of my Father and his parents (1st gen NZers from Europe) culture but I could never bring myself to play against NZ

It's hilarious how vocal the northern hemisphere rugby nations used to be about the All Blacks poaching pacific players.

Not so much now... wonder why...

 

[bruce]

Players leave for MMT so the Kiwis simply rob Cook Islands and Samoa of players...

Which ones? By that I mean ones that were born there.

 

[Sup42]

Players leave for MMT so the Kiwis simply rob Cook Islands and Samoa of players...

Those days are numbered, maybe not for the Cooks....but Samoa will surely see this new deal and serious money and prestige that Tonga are guaranteed and will rightly be driven by envy to emulate them.

Eight years of competition in tier one for Tonga...which makes them tier one...incredible really.

 

[razzrillinger]

Seen some stuff about Marty Taupau and his wife meeting with Leeds while they were in the UK and it was hinted that it may have been the reason he didn't play the third test.

There are a bunch of tweets/photos in here :

 

[Rizzah]

Offer Leeds Lisone as a trade, surely Auckland is more appealing.

 

[Hardyman's Yugo]

Seen some stuff about Marty Taupau and his wife meeting with Leeds while they were in the UK and it was hinted that it may have been the reason he didn't play the third test.

There are a bunch of tweets/photos in here :

Leeds is a really nice city to be in tbh and Headingley is a proper old style RL ground even with the new stand. Overseas players seem to settle in well there

 

[matiunz]

Leeds is a really nice city to be in tbh and Headingley is a proper old style RL ground even with the new stand. Overseas players seem to settle in well there

Was gonna say around there/York area was quite nice place to visit

 

[Hardyman's Yugo]

Was gonna say around there/York area was quite nice place to visit

Go there quite often in the summer, York is a great city.
South side of Leeds (near Elland Road) can be a bit rough but centre and north side is great. Lots of nice countryside just out of the city as well.

Like everywhere else, if you’ve got a brain and therefore accept it’s different to home you’ll probably enjoy the experience. Some of them expect it to be exactly like home and don’t last.

 

[Inruin]

Masters passing ability is about as on par as Kata. Maumalo needs a decent centre in his life asap.

Genuine question. Are people here over rating Ken? I get the argument that his centre partners don't pass to him. Is that coincidence? Two centres playing in two different teams not passing to him. When Kata was out I dont recall Ken suddenly getting a massive increase in ball going out to him. I wonder if a lot is being made of this than is reality. Would be interesting to see a comparison of touches by ken v fusitua.

 

[Brother Faisal]

Genuine question. Are people here over rating Ken? I get the argument that his centre partners don't pass to him. Is that coincidence? Two centres playing in two different teams not passing to him. When Kata was out I dont recall Ken suddenly getting a massive increase in ball going out to him. I wonder if a lot is being made of this than is reality. Would be interesting to see a comparison of touches by ken v fusitua.

All of marsters passes this series have been shit, i dont blame him from dropping everyone. Hes not the greatest in narrow windows. Hes missing alot of finishing but i expect him to finish like the beast use to. Make the contact first then go over with power. Ken never goes into the contact when scoring he trys to go to the outside and do the diving stuff. He needs to spend pre-season with manu working on that, he would get alot more tries i believe.

 

[Hardyman's Yugo]

Genuine question. Are people here over rating Ken? I get the argument that his centre partners don't pass to him. Is that coincidence? Two centres playing in two different teams not passing to him. When Kata was out I dont recall Ken suddenly getting a massive increase in ball going out to him. I wonder if a lot is being made of this than is reality. Would be interesting to see a comparison of touches by ken v fusitua.

He looks a good finisher to me, big guy with a bit of pace who knows where the line is is. Like all good finishers though he needs an inside player to give him the ball at the right time, preferably after part committing the defence. He doesn’t have that for club or country atm.

 

[bruce]

He looks a good finisher

He has shown that a few times which indicates to me it is the men inside, not him who is the problem.

 

[Fearmuss]

He has shown that a few times which indicates to me it is the men inside, not him who is the problem.

I noticed his general game play has become more expansive during this tour, his step has come back. The last time I remember that was during a spell where Kata was out injured. He simply doesn't get enough time with ball in hand with Kata around him.

 

[matiunz]

Have to admit I didn’t think Ken was ready for the Kiwis but he’s continued to kick on this year and has looked the best I’ve ever seen him in the tests.
Is it better service or is he just growing in confidence?

 

[ttkk19]

Have to admit I didn’t think Ken was ready for the Kiwis but he’s continued to kick on this year and has looked the best I’ve ever seen him in the tests.
Is it better service or is he just growing in confidence?

I'd say he's growing in confidence and also getting better ball from his inside players.

When he first came into grade you could tell he wasn't comfortable in the attacking 20m, having such a narrow passageway and lots of pressure would be difficult for such a big guy who wasn't used to the position (I think he played mostly centre and backrow in the juniors). There were quite a few cases where he'd drop balls under pressure and he wasn't contesting cross kicks. He's come along in leaps and bounds though, I never thought I'd see him score the two tries he scored on the weekend (actual tries where he had to do a lot of the work and wasn't spoon-fed a ball before falling over the line).

He's also been getting better ball and more space and time than he does at the Warriors. You can't just blame Kata for that though, alot of his ball is coming from offloads and space which is created by the guys inside Marsters, not just him.

 

[Stalefish540]

Genuine question. Are people here over rating Ken? I get the argument that his centre partners don't pass to him. Is that coincidence? Two centres playing in two different teams not passing to him. When Kata was out I dont recall Ken suddenly getting a massive increase in ball going out to him. I wonder if a lot is being made of this than is reality. Would be interesting to see a comparison of touches by ken v fusitua.

I'm don't rate him too highly, I prefer dynamic wingers with pace personally. But hes come leaps and bounds this year and clearly a hard worker, so think we can safely assume hes here to stay. So would like to see him get a decent crack with a quality centre inside like Whare, to feed him early ball and see what he could do. His attacking game isn't going to get a chance to grow with the likes of kata/masters inside him.

 

[Sledge]

Genuine question. Are people here over rating Ken? I get the argument that his centre partners don't pass to him. Is that coincidence? Two centres playing in two different teams not passing to him. When Kata was out I dont recall Ken suddenly getting a massive increase in ball going out to him. I wonder if a lot is being made of this than is reality. Would be interesting to see a comparison of touches by ken v fusitua.

No I just think you are over rating Kata.

 

[Boats n Hoes]

Genuine question. Are people here over rating Ken? I get the argument that his centre partners don't pass to him. Is that coincidence? Two centres playing in two different teams not passing to him. When Kata was out I dont recall Ken suddenly getting a massive increase in ball going out to him. I wonder if a lot is being made of this than is reality. Would be interesting to see a comparison of touches by ken v fusitua.

While there are limitations to Ken's game and his main strength still remains his ability to start sets off, there are signs his general game is on the improve. That aerial take he did to score was absolutely top draw, he doesn't do that a season or so ago, and as far as involvement goes you cant ask for better.

I think positioning still doesn't come naturally to him yet. Still stands far too flat with his centre for my liking. Even tho I didn't think that pass should have been ruled forward in the test, if he stands 1 or 2 steps deeper it takes the pressure off his centre to deliver a flat ball and takes the forward pass out of the equation. Partly typical big man syndrome in that their acceleration isn't quite as sharp so probably feels the need to be flat so he doesn't get left behind if the pass is on.

As far as his centre's go yeah Kata isn't the greatest distributor and needs to work on that, but I don't think it's anywhere near chrisis levels most on here make out, and as far as the Kiwi's go it's partly a combination thing, the more he plays with these guys the better they'll get.

 

[Inruin]

No I just think you are over rating Kata.

You don't get to be the President of the Kata Fan club by not rating him