Internationals ENGLAND 2014 Four Nations Campaign

mt.wellington

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James Graham to captain England in the absence of Sean O'Loughlin who misses the match with a quad probllem.

The England side to face Samoa at Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane on Saturday October 25, kick off 4.00pm (local) is as follows (professional club and community club in brackets):

1. Sam Tomkins (New Zealand Warriors, Wigan St Patricks)
2. Josh Charnley (Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Patricks)
3. Kallum Watkins (Leeds Rhinos, Latchford Albion)
4. Michael Shenton (Castleford Tigers, Upton)
5. Ryan Hall (Leeds Rhinos, Oulton Raiders)
6. Gareth Widdop (St George Illawarra Dragons, King Cross)
7. Matty Smith (Wigan Warriors, Blackbrook)
8. George Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs, Dewsbury Moor)
9. Josh Hodgson (Hull KR, East Hull)
10. James Graham (captain) (Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs, Blackbrook)
11. Liam Farrell (Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Patricks)
12. Joel Tomkins (Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Patricks)
13. Joe Westerman (Hull FC, Featherstone Lions)
14. Daryl Clark (Castleford Tigers, Fryston Warriors)
15. Brett Ferres (Huddersfield Giants, Smawthorne Panthers)
16. Tom Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs, Dewsbury Moor)
17. Chris Hill (Warrington Wolves, New Spring Lions)
 
Bloody ell the Poms have the best Props in the comp ( as expected I guess, but how good is it to see it on paper....imagine Sam B in there...).
They have the best wing pairing.

They have an ok Fullback on the edges.

They have a good seven and a very good six.

They have picked on ESL form , plenty of Tigers made the side.

Farrell is a bit small but with the size of their Prop rotation I don't think that is relevant.

I think Toa will take them out......I think they will defeat NZ and Australia.
 
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For me the main weaknesses in that team are:

Centre - are we ever going to produce an international standard centre again ?

Smith is a good ESL 7 but I'm not convinced he's internal standard either.

We're on to our 3rd best hooker and he's on the bench!

Second row - not sure what JT has done to deserve a recall. He's been steady since his return but nothing more. Farrell is , as already mentioned a bit small. That said Hes got a good engine and won't let anyone down.

On the positive side though it's good to have 2 halfbacks who regularly play in that position
 
For me the main weaknesses in that team are:

Centre - are we ever going to produce an international standard centre again ?

Smith is a good ESL 7 but I'm not convinced he's internal standard either.

We're on to our 3rd best hooker and he's on the bench!

Second row - not sure what JT has done to deserve a recall. He's been steady since his return but nothing more. Farrell is , as already mentioned a bit small. That said Hes got a good engine and won't let anyone down.

On the positive side though it's good to have 2 halfbacks who regularly play in that position
Would you put Chase ahead of Smith were that an option, if not who ?
 
Would you put Chase ahead of Smith were that an option, if not who ?

I wouldn't. Chase has the proverbial X factor but goes missing when it's tough. Smith is consistantly solid and does his job regardless of the traffic.

I guess I'm just a bit worried it's such an important position and there's no one available who you look at and say "he's a shoe in for international duty"
 
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I wouldn't. Chase has the proverbial X factor but goes missing when it's tough. Smith is consistantly solid and does his job regardless of the traffic.

I guess I'm just a bit worried it's such an important position and there's no one available who you look at and say "he's a shoe in for international duty"
Yeah I like Smith but it is a worry that there is nobody better than him available. It should've turned out better as we had Eastmond and Tomkins earmarked as our halves pairing for the foreseeable future. One of them doesn't even play the game anymore and the other was shifted to fullback and we are left looking a bit thinner in that position. I hope we play a very structured game because imo that is where Smith really can shine but I may have looked to move Tomkins back to the halves with Widdop and put Hardaker at fullback. In one move that would up our creativity in the halves and improve our defence at the back.
 
Yeah I like Smith but it is a worry that there is nobody better than him available. It should've turned out better as we had Eastmond and Tomkins earmarked as our halves pairing for the foreseeable future. One of them doesn't even play the game anymore and the other was shifted to fullback and we are left looking a bit thinner in that position. I hope we play a very structured game because imo that is where Smith really can shine but I may have looked to move Tomkins back to the halves with Widdop and put Hardaker at fullback. In one move that would up our creativity in the halves and improve our defence at the back.

Very true but in the same move lose us some extra flair chiming in where necessary.

That said McBanana doesn't have a clue how to use Sam Tomkins so it probably doesn't matter.
 
England looked sluggish they were lucky to get away with that win against Samoa.

What the fark was that thing on our Tomkins leg?... that was a butterfly tattoo right? Of all things a farkeen butterfly!!...
 
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England looked sluggish they were lucky to get away with that win against Samoa.

What the fark was that thing on our Tomkins leg?... that was a butterfly tattoo right? Of all things a farkeen butterfly!!...

If he didn't get that octopuss try it would have been a rubbish performance, I hate the way he can rule himself out of 5th tackle options.
 
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But Tomkins did for once make some decent tackles when Samoa got breaks. It looked like a team who needed a warm up game and hopefully the woeful completion rate and discipline can be improved. The biggest worry is the Godinet tries which were embarrassing to concede at that level. Thought when they held the ball they did well considering bad possession and field position and it was good to see a halves partnership with a competent kicking game.
 
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Anyone else think Tomkins looked like he had put a bit of size on? The good kind, that is.
I didn't notice it but it wouldn't necessarily surprise me. Since being back in England he's been working with Wigan's fitness man Mark Bitcon who is fantastic at his job and can really change a guy's body shape. So if Sam decided he wanted to put weight on he could probably have helped him relatively quickly. I would rather he learnt how to catch bombs though. If Australia and NZ don't pepper him with bombs then their kickers need shooting.
 
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mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Anyone else think Tomkins looked like he had put a bit of size on? The good kind, that is.
Didnt look any different to me but then I was really looking anywhere except that weird butterfly tattoo of his. From what they showed on the telly it was a skull looking demon inside the body of the butterfly...

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I didn't notice it but it wouldn't necessarily surprise me. Since being back in England he's been working with Wigan's fitness man Mark Bitcon who is fantastic at his job and can really change a guy's body shape. So if Sam decided he wanted to put weight on he could probably have helped him relatively quickly. I would rather he learnt how to catch bombs though. If Australia and NZ don't pepper him with bombs then their kickers need shooting.
Don't worry about us, Johnson won't need encouragement to put a few bombs in the air :D

In saying that, they look incredibly effective when there are actually defenders applying pressure on the backs. Hopefully the Warriors back home are taking note.
 
Practicing catching bombs in England would be a nice idea but there's only two decent kickers of them in ESL.

looked to me (though I'm no expert) that the conditions got on top of us a bit. Other than that I'd also point to some coaching ineptitude.

All that said Samoa are a great team who if memory serves have you guys a fright in the World Cup
 
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Jordan G

Guest
Such a golden opportunity for England here. If this was being played back there I'd consider them favourites. NZ and GB do seem to adjust in quality depending what hemisphere they're in, but this is as good an opportunity as any they've had considering the strength of their forward pack.

If they can get over the mental hurdle of beating Australia (something that has cost them a few games rather than talent) I don't think NZ holds any fears for them.
 
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Scrabbling to find the pluses but there are a few. That's the first time in a while we've had a proper half back pairing. So often recently it's been one half and a loose forward at 6 and 7 and while, as I said before the match Smith isn't exceptional but he is solid and gets the job done.

Unfortunately though with Samoa being nearly a complete NRL team its exposing the none NRL players in the England team. The RFL really need to start trying to improve the quality of ESL