General Craig Gower

PB_old

Guest
Mone, why, when we have a history of good half-backs like Freeman, Friend, Jones, and Varley, do we have this problem? Even decent ball-players in the Shane Cooper mould have disappeared, and Jason Smith showed how effective they can still be. It can't all be due to over-emphasis on the crash and bash of the big boys, can it?
 

Mone_old

Guest
Yes Bob I think that is a big part of the problem. I think that our junior development is geared towards winning at that level u/16 etc, this is fine but it doesnt put us in good stead for senior football. When you can have a fast 100kg half and 5/8 at 15 years old they dont even have to have the fundamentals, maybe a dummy and a step from a scrum through the line and score, when you get used to this you dont have to create anything its just run and get a try then when you hit the top flight it doesnt work anymore.
I think good ball players are slipping through the system because they dont have the physical traits believed to be essential by some to play rugby league.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
Oh for heavens sake. We've had one game 2 by tomorrow afternoon. You can't solve this sort of an issue by just going out there and buying things to suit. Besides as generally good as he could be, I think he's a bit way past it anyway. And I don't mean that i age, but generally in performance. He's previous played SOO and at International level and been a grand final winner, yes but since then he hadn't really stood out from the rest

That's an interesting thing to say. I guess there's no point in any players getting signed by clubs, then. Price, Wiki, McKinnon and Tate had might as well pack their bags, because they can't perform for us now that they've been paid. (?!?)
 

Viking_old

Guest
i don't think Penrith were that worried about Gower leaving, the fans sure weren't. Like Toilet Duck said, we can't buy the top ones so we go for the best of the rest or grow our own. Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury of experimenting so unless Ravs gets REALLY bad, nothings going to change. He is starting to show a bit of improvement.

Prince always seemed a bit too big for a halfback to me
 

Skinny_Ravs82

Guest
That's an interesting thing to say. I guess there's no point in any players getting signed by clubs, then. Price, Wiki, McKinnon and Tate had might as well pack their bags, because they can't perform for us now that they've been paid. (?!?)
They weren't bought to solve a problem, I don't believe. It was a case of recruiting for positions

the halfback issues is not about position, it is obvious to everyone it is about trying to get the perfect one because, like I said so many times before in other threads like this one through 2007 we were, like Newcastle quite spoilt in the position coz the player(s) in question were just so brilliant.
 

Skinny_Ravs82

Guest
Like which ordinary team?
Then after answering that tell me which halfback would be the same as they are now, in that team?
Dragons, Raiders, Panthers, Dogs, Tigers, Cowboys maybe, Roosters

Swap all the halfbacks, could they still be as successful as they are now? I'd find that hard to believe they'd be the same player. They could be good but as good as they are? Hmmm....
 

Mone_old

Guest
Skinny the point I was trying to make is that Cronk is a far better player than your posts suggest.
Rovelli imo doesnt organize well and is indecisive bad traits for a halfback.
 
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sebastian_old

Guest
Forget Gower he's wayyy past he's used by date, if we want a quick fix to for the half back spot then throw money at Brett Finch, he's the one decent half we'd have a chance of signing & he's grown into a match turning half at Parramatta. How good was he against the Dogs?
Or we could even go the other way & get a 20's comp. half, how's our own Jodie Henry? Last I heard he was going well, I know for a fact Parramatta's 20's halfback, Peter Mortimer's kid, is a special talent & is a star of the future & I'm sure if we show we can secure his future he'll sign.
For right now however, I agree with Skinny, the year's just started, let's start the hunt for a new halfback after Rovelli has had a proper chance to prove himself, as either improving or failing this year because there is no 2nd year syndrome excuse this year. Hopefully he'll improve this season & we can all get excited & stop these posts. As much as I'd love a quick fix like you guys I guess we really need to give Rovelli a chance to step up this season, like I said there will be no excuses this year, this should be his make or break season. I hope he makes...
 

Northern_Union

Guest
Mone, why, when we have a history of good half-backs like Freeman, Friend, Jones, and Varley, do we have this problem? Even decent ball-players in the Shane Cooper mould have disappeared, and Jason Smith showed how effective they can still be. It can't all be due to over-emphasis on the crash and bash of the big boys, can it?

The NZ style of RL has all but killed the skilled half backs we were turning out for near on 90 years. It's simple really, why put time and money into developing quality half backs when you can have a big fast kid that needs no upskilling because he was born huge and fast?
We wont see any decent half backs in NZ for at least a decade because the NZRL is only now starting to address the problem.
The power and pace game was has been so dominate over the last 20 years in the NZ has been easy for Australia to beat on the test field because what happens when you meet power and pace with like? you nullify it, when that happens all your left with are your skilled halfs to win you the game.....guess what Australia has in abundance? guess what we have very few of?
 

PB_old

Guest
The NZ style of RL has all but killed the skilled half backs we were turning out for near on 90 years. It's simple really, why put time and money into developing quality half backs when you can have a big fast kid that needs no upskilling because he was born huge and fast?
We wont see any decent half backs in NZ for at least a decade because the NZRL is only now starting to address the problem.
The power and pace game was has been so dominate over the last 20 years in the NZ has been easy for Australia to beat on the test field because what happens when you meet power and pace with like? you nullify it, when that happens all your left with are your skilled halfs to win you the game.....guess what Australia has in abundance? guess what we have very few of?

Yeah. I remember playing age group when we had to go up into open grade due to lack of teams in restricted. Got caned heaps. Was pretty hard to stay enthused.
 

rovelli_old

Guest
I have made it obvious that I am a fan of Rovelli so what I am going to say would be no surprise to anybody.
A half-back needs a dominate forward pack to be able to be effective. When Price went off our forward pack was non-existant. Rapira did nothing, Swann did nothing and Luck was ordinary just to name a few.
Yes he should take more control and Yes he should get more involved but he needs the forwards to lay down the platform.
We need to face facts, he is not going to be a superstar or a freak so he is never gonna single-handly change a game but he will do whats needed in a halfback.
GO RAVS
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
They weren't bought to solve a problem, I don't believe. It was a case of recruiting for positions

the halfback issues is not about position, it is obvious to everyone it is about trying to get the perfect one because, like I said so many times before in other threads like this one through 2007 we were, like Newcastle quite spoilt in the position coz the player(s) in question were just so brilliant.

As in, to just make up the numbers? If that's the case, why bother spending top dollar on the best? I mean, when we had no metre gainage, clearly Price did nothing to alleviate that. And when Webb left the club, McKinnon did nothing to solve the problem of us no longer having a quality fullback. ?!?
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
i don't think Penrith were that worried about Gower leaving, the fans sure weren't. Like Toilet Duck said, we can't buy the top ones so we go for the best of the rest or grow our own. Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury of experimenting so unless Ravs gets REALLY bad, nothings going to change. He is starting to show a bit of improvement.

Prince always seemed a bit too big for a halfback to me

I thought Rovelli went really well in the first half of the Storm match, particularly as the running halfback that he is. But he went completely missing in the second half.
 

Northern_Union

Guest
Yeah. I remember playing age group when we had to go up into open grade due to lack of teams in restricted. Got caned heaps. Was pretty hard to stay enthused.

Me too!

I was like a mobile tackling bag for the bigger lads that had developed into men almost by the age of about 14.
 

Northern_Union

Guest
I have made it obvious that I am a fan of Rovelli so what I am going to say would be no surprise to anybody.
A half-back needs a dominate forward pack to be able to be effective. When Price went off our forward pack was non-existant. Rapira did nothing, Swann did nothing and Luck was ordinary just to name a few.
Yes he should take more control and Yes he should get more involved but he needs the forwards to lay down the platform.
We need to face facts, he is not going to be a superstar or a freak so he is never gonna single-handly change a game but he will do whats needed in a halfback.
GO RAVS

He had a dominate forward pack for most of last season, he still wasn't cutting the mustard.
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
Again I'm not sure what Ravs did wrong in game 1 of the season. The kicking was fairly good I thought, just one transgression where they hit Slater on the full.

He had a very ordinary season last year, but he certainly wasn't alone in the ordinary kicking department. The season before, he was quite delicate and planned in his approach to kicking. That seemed to be where he lacked, just constructing a plan and executing it.

Let's see how he goes under Stacey's tutelage before we call for the cleavers. Let's not forget, if it wasn't for a couple of dropped bombs and three dead ball kicks we probably had enough to beat Melbourne. That's right, last years premiers, on a day that had reached 39 degrees, with Wade McKinnon out, with Steve Price going down early... I ask, was it that bad that we're calling for heads?
 

Northern_Union

Guest
It's not one game Iafeta, it's 2 and half seasons of average half back play. Have you forgotten how bad he was in the Cowboys semi last season, caught on the last a couple of times, offered nothing on attack.
 

aussie_warrior_old

Guest
I would still take a young Rovelli than an old, broke, drunk, kid groping, flashing Gower. You can 'sort of' put up with that crap if you're playing well, but not when you aren't.
 

kozicorp_old

Guest
All this displeasure with Rovelli and noone seems to consider the opinion of the coach who had ample opportunity to find a replacement since last season-if he thought it was necessary! And surely he too is aware there are several accomplished halfs in his squad-Fien,Hohaia,Witt to name a few.On top of that they are developing several through the 20's including at least (1) who came through the queensland junior and representative system,and another who spent some time there also before returning home.The fact the club saw fit to spend (albeit small amounts of) money on these imports indicates they are attempting to address the deficiency in that area and it could be argued that with more time and tutorage the immediate and medium term prospects are sound without being over-endowed.The salary cap may just have a little bearing on that when you consider players of the calibre of Wiki,Price and Tate would command a significant slice of the available pie ?
 

Northern_Union

Guest
Must admit i couldn't have asked for more from Rovelli today. He played a controlled match behind a pack that played over the top of it's opponents. I can recall only one slight mistake from Ravs today and as far as giving him a rating i'd say 8/10.

I'm not convinced we couldn't do better but on todays display no other half back could have done any better than him today.

Well done Ravs.