DavidMcKay1974
To answer your question. Far Right extremists.
From my memory, I think it was the German Government who stopped a plot attempt from happening there last month as well. They arrested a whole lot of people in a morning raid.
From my memory, I think it was the German Government who stopped a plot attempt from happening there last month as well. They arrested a whole lot of people in a morning raid.
Worried2Death
Contributor
This one, about offshore political influence on NZ from the likes of Steve Bannon. I'm a bit dubious about some of the claims but I'd like to hear your opinion on it if you get a chance to see it.
Sup42
It's weird to read people harping on about the same stuff even though it is history and they were wrong.
We live in a post Covid lock down reality, a endemic.
To read about lefties and righties and Govt control as if any of the Govt control dire warnings and conspiracies came to pass is strange indeed.,
What happened to the New World order?
What happened to the Govt enforcing controls over our freedoms forever?
What happened to restriction of movement?
Forced vaccinations of all citizens?
It was all shit eh.
All of it.
But you still see people wanking on about 'the people'.
What people?
Nine out of ten of us are the people.
We live in a post Covid lock down reality, a endemic.
To read about lefties and righties and Govt control as if any of the Govt control dire warnings and conspiracies came to pass is strange indeed.,
What happened to the New World order?
What happened to the Govt enforcing controls over our freedoms forever?
What happened to restriction of movement?
Forced vaccinations of all citizens?
It was all shit eh.
All of it.
But you still see people wanking on about 'the people'.
What people?
Nine out of ten of us are the people.
Last edited:
wizards rage
Equally dangerous to democracy:
Stopping the public’s right to protest on public ground by trespassing them?
Denying democratic analysis by banning the media meeting protesters
Denying democracy by banning opposition parties from meeting the protesters?
And the worst - trying to trespass opposition politicians from parliament (Peters)
I hope those worried about a 6th of January happening in NZ were outraged about actual undemocratic actions that did happen!
DavidMcKay1974
Because there were groups within the protests that weren't actually there to protest about the protest but were there to spread hate, and try and force some kind of harmful incident on Jacinda.
None of the leaders of each group knew who the actual overall leader was.
So no one knew who to actually talk to.
It was a mess within a mess that was supposed to be gentle and quiet but turned nasty and riotsome especially on that first and last day.
I can talk about it, because I watched it from start to finish, and by the time it got near the finish I was mostly bored of it and then it all went to hell.
Sup42
I dunno why I am writing this, because I have essentially compartmentalized the former pandemic in my mind from being an imminent potentially lethal existential threat, to an endemic mind set.
An endemic mindset from where I sit is one where you knew Covid would kill you without a vaccine, but you got the vaccine, and therefore, Covid was far less likely to kill you...put you in hospital maybe...but not an almost guaranteed cancellation of your Warriors membership forever.
An endemic mindset is where you spent a lil time in hospital on the edge, but got back home very fast after just a little dose of O2 via a positive ventilation that forced your lungs to work when you were in respiratory failure...
Then the vaccine micro bot chips kicked in...like right at the time you were making lists for your kids on some clinical note paper you scabbed from the staff with the dhb header cut off.....and in the morning you looked embarrassingly normal to the staff, and were promptly returned to normal transmission.
But most of all an endemic mindset is one where the latest Covid news holds no interest for you unless something has radically changed to shift the goal posts back to where they were pre vaccine....a paradigm where getting Covid will more likely kill you than not.
Excuse the preamble, but I feel defensive in this thread when about to talk about Covid, because some people will not allow you to move on....move ahead...talk about Covid with your not worried endemic voice....and to be fair to those people....it is because they assume a man is a static thing, a singular fixed point in a continuum of a changing universe....If I said X on page 19 then X must be what I think forever and ever amen.
I digress....to the point....I have had a re look at the Wuhan institute Lab leak theory.
I am glad I waited all this time to entertain the possibility of the lab leak theory, because as I have come to understand Covid...and what was happening at the Wuhan institute.....as I have become a new man...call it endemic phase man.....
This virus with almost certainty did not come from the Wet Markets as I argued so strongly in this thread.
People who told me off who told me to wake up, who bore my vociferous standard model argument about viral origins (lets be fair here, there is a billion factoids that prove all pandemics come from places other than labs).....those people who believed in the Lab theory....I would now like to state publicly in our little and insignificant theatre in a dark corner of the interweb....I believe those people were right...and I was wrong.
It almost certainly came from a lab leak....
There I said it. I won't bore you with why I think it was from the lab, short version is I have been reading about gain of function in other viral studies and Covid 19 actually fits the profile of engineering for specific traits.
Certainly the leap to rapid mutation is something new to previous understandings of Corona viruses.
The next Pandemic will 99% likelihood come from agriculture, from animal markets, from poor handling of meats....as pandemics have since time immemorial.
But, thanks to the interweb of conspiracy it will be blamed on a lab.....coz people see one apple and think all apples are golden delicious.
Ask yourselves seriously....about the future...what is more likely....people trained in Hazmats in a super lab release the next pandemic? or the sweating man in the meat market with a bloodied shirt and black fingernails wiping his nose while he cleavers a live bat to order?
Did China make Covid nasty in a lab on purpose?
Fuck no....wake up and look at what is happening in China right now, they are in major shit thanks to a probable lab accident.
An endemic mindset from where I sit is one where you knew Covid would kill you without a vaccine, but you got the vaccine, and therefore, Covid was far less likely to kill you...put you in hospital maybe...but not an almost guaranteed cancellation of your Warriors membership forever.
An endemic mindset is where you spent a lil time in hospital on the edge, but got back home very fast after just a little dose of O2 via a positive ventilation that forced your lungs to work when you were in respiratory failure...
Then the vaccine micro bot chips kicked in...like right at the time you were making lists for your kids on some clinical note paper you scabbed from the staff with the dhb header cut off.....and in the morning you looked embarrassingly normal to the staff, and were promptly returned to normal transmission.
But most of all an endemic mindset is one where the latest Covid news holds no interest for you unless something has radically changed to shift the goal posts back to where they were pre vaccine....a paradigm where getting Covid will more likely kill you than not.
Excuse the preamble, but I feel defensive in this thread when about to talk about Covid, because some people will not allow you to move on....move ahead...talk about Covid with your not worried endemic voice....and to be fair to those people....it is because they assume a man is a static thing, a singular fixed point in a continuum of a changing universe....If I said X on page 19 then X must be what I think forever and ever amen.
I digress....to the point....I have had a re look at the Wuhan institute Lab leak theory.
I am glad I waited all this time to entertain the possibility of the lab leak theory, because as I have come to understand Covid...and what was happening at the Wuhan institute.....as I have become a new man...call it endemic phase man.....
This virus with almost certainty did not come from the Wet Markets as I argued so strongly in this thread.
People who told me off who told me to wake up, who bore my vociferous standard model argument about viral origins (lets be fair here, there is a billion factoids that prove all pandemics come from places other than labs).....those people who believed in the Lab theory....I would now like to state publicly in our little and insignificant theatre in a dark corner of the interweb....I believe those people were right...and I was wrong.
It almost certainly came from a lab leak....
There I said it. I won't bore you with why I think it was from the lab, short version is I have been reading about gain of function in other viral studies and Covid 19 actually fits the profile of engineering for specific traits.
Certainly the leap to rapid mutation is something new to previous understandings of Corona viruses.
The next Pandemic will 99% likelihood come from agriculture, from animal markets, from poor handling of meats....as pandemics have since time immemorial.
But, thanks to the interweb of conspiracy it will be blamed on a lab.....coz people see one apple and think all apples are golden delicious.
Ask yourselves seriously....about the future...what is more likely....people trained in Hazmats in a super lab release the next pandemic? or the sweating man in the meat market with a bloodied shirt and black fingernails wiping his nose while he cleavers a live bat to order?
Did China make Covid nasty in a lab on purpose?
Fuck no....wake up and look at what is happening in China right now, they are in major shit thanks to a probable lab accident.
Last edited:
Miket12
A locally made COVID vaccine booster has begun it’s next stage of trials.
bruce
I agree, and when I saw Anthony Fauci tryng to explain "gain of function" to the Congress committee I got even more suspicious.
I say that because guys like Rand Paul were after him. but had not done their homework and Fauci was just playing with him.
That is a tactic used by dark outfits when they let some farkwit like Paul go off on tangents, and look stupid
Mr Dragon
Lets make a super virus and study it, what could go wrong! 🤣
wizards rage
Well thought out summary from Steven Joyce analysis the govt choices from a politicians view and questioning a covid report led by someone focused on health:
It’s amazing how quickly the collective consciousness can move on.
This time last year Auckland had just come out of a Covid lockdown lasting several months. We had tentatively brought down the border between Auckland and the rest of the country, and Northland iwi were requiring border checkpoints to head up north.
At the end of 2021 each death of someone who tested positive for Covid was rare enough that its reporting warranted major breaking news status. There was a death in North Shore hospital on Christmas Eve and three more across the country in the whole of January. Our first community case of Omicron was on December 29, fittingly enough a British DJ. We were measuring total cases in the tens.
This all came flooding back to me this week when I heard the radio news report of the latest weekly Covid statistics. They came part-way down the bulletin in what seemed like a desperate attempt to find news that wasn’t about the ridiculously appalling weather the North Island has been experiencing.
Nearly 22,000 cases were reported in the first full week of January this year, and 53 people died. Yet despite the much higher toll. there were no sermons from the pulpit of truth, no handwringing from leading politicians, no Covid restriction changes, just a thirty-second summary and on to the latest from the storm front.
It’s striking, to say the least.
This is not to make a judgement on the merits of the two approaches. It is as possible to say that last year’s approach was ridiculously panicked as it is to say this year’s approach is too blasé. And all deaths are sad. It’s just hard to reconcile two diametrically opposed attitudes to risk in the same country just twelve months apart.
China’s abrupt turnaround in its policy for managing the virus is a more extreme example of the same phenomenon. Just weeks ago we were all judging the futility of the middle kingdom doggedly pursuing zero-Covid long after the rest of the world had given it up (in our case surely a convenient amnesia as twelve months ago we had been doing the same thing).
Then, suddenly, a few ragged student protests later, and voila, China has pulled a 180-degree handbrake turn and is describing Omicron as not much worse than a cold, despite mounting hospitalisations and deaths.
There are limits to the China comparison. There is no doubt they dallied in their rollout of vaccines while indulging in a superiority complex when comparing their approach with that of the rest of the world. They also forcefully broke up families and placed people in quarantine against their will, while we….never mind. Suffice it to say they were even tougher than us, and their scepticism of western vaccines will cause greater hardship.
It must be discombobulating for those, here and in China, or even say Victoria or Western Australia, who fully accepted their government’s then-line that there was no cost too high in the pursuit of zero Covid, to experiencing the current position of those same governments. I know the likes of Michael Baker finds it very confusing.
To the rest of us, it proves one thing. The management of Covid-19, particularly once vaccines were available, was as much a political decision as anything else. Politicians were fond of declaring they were just following the science, but they weren’t especially.
The science didn’t change that much. What changed was the political calculus. Once it was clear that scaring the bejesus out of people and locking them down was no longer politically profitable, politicians quickly moved on to playing down the virus and normalising it.
All this underlines that there wasn’t only one way of doing things. We had choices, particularly once vaccines became available in early 2021. And particularly in this country the second half of 2021 could have been very different if alternative but equally valid political choices had been made to those that were.
All this is relevant now because our Royal Commission into the Covid response starts work at the end of this month. Our Government deserves credit for, however belatedly, setting it up. It deserves less credit for placing the Reserve Bank’s actions off limits (how does the Governor live such a charmed life?) or for placing an epidemiologist in charge.
In my view there should definitely be one on the panel, and Tony Blakely seems to fit the bill well given his lack of direct involvement in the New Zealand response. However a more neutral arbiter between the health decisions and the other costs should have been chosen to lead it. The careful and thoughtful commissioner (and former Treasury Secretary) John Whitehead could have been ideal.
This Commission has a very important job to do. It needs to look at the costs and benefits of all the decisions made from a neutral perspective, and determine where better trade-offs could be made. It will be harder for an epidemiologist, however even-handed they try to be, to do that.
There are those of course who think we should forget about going over the entrails of the Covid response. They think it is pointless to look in the rearview mirror. Except that it isn’t the rearview mirror.
We are still living with the impact of the decisions made during the pandemic and the huge financial cost of those will be with us for years to come. The billions lost through quantitative easing could have bought a bunch of new hospitals or paid for a fair few water pipes.
The decision, unique to New Zealand, to shut down massive transport projects during lockdowns has now likely cost billions of dollars and years in delays, as reported just prior to Christmas. The massive fiscal burden has only been reduced by an inflation-driven rise in the tax take, which adds to the cost of living squeeze on kiwi families.
And then there is the human toll. There seems little doubt that some of the anti-social behaviour we are seeing and our falling education performance are a result of people being told that what society previously signalled was important didn’t turn out to be so important during that long 2021 lockdown – like going to school.
In bestowing a knighthood on the Director-General of Health so quickly, the government appears to have already passed judgement on its own performance. The rest of us should be more thoughtful. As our changing attitude to Covid risk in the last year shows, it is possible to make different choices with fewer long-term costs in calmer, more rational times. This, surely, is a lesson we should take from the last two years.
www.nzherald.co.nz
It’s amazing how quickly the collective consciousness can move on.
This time last year Auckland had just come out of a Covid lockdown lasting several months. We had tentatively brought down the border between Auckland and the rest of the country, and Northland iwi were requiring border checkpoints to head up north.
At the end of 2021 each death of someone who tested positive for Covid was rare enough that its reporting warranted major breaking news status. There was a death in North Shore hospital on Christmas Eve and three more across the country in the whole of January. Our first community case of Omicron was on December 29, fittingly enough a British DJ. We were measuring total cases in the tens.
This all came flooding back to me this week when I heard the radio news report of the latest weekly Covid statistics. They came part-way down the bulletin in what seemed like a desperate attempt to find news that wasn’t about the ridiculously appalling weather the North Island has been experiencing.
Nearly 22,000 cases were reported in the first full week of January this year, and 53 people died. Yet despite the much higher toll. there were no sermons from the pulpit of truth, no handwringing from leading politicians, no Covid restriction changes, just a thirty-second summary and on to the latest from the storm front.
It’s striking, to say the least.
This is not to make a judgement on the merits of the two approaches. It is as possible to say that last year’s approach was ridiculously panicked as it is to say this year’s approach is too blasé. And all deaths are sad. It’s just hard to reconcile two diametrically opposed attitudes to risk in the same country just twelve months apart.
China’s abrupt turnaround in its policy for managing the virus is a more extreme example of the same phenomenon. Just weeks ago we were all judging the futility of the middle kingdom doggedly pursuing zero-Covid long after the rest of the world had given it up (in our case surely a convenient amnesia as twelve months ago we had been doing the same thing).
Then, suddenly, a few ragged student protests later, and voila, China has pulled a 180-degree handbrake turn and is describing Omicron as not much worse than a cold, despite mounting hospitalisations and deaths.
There are limits to the China comparison. There is no doubt they dallied in their rollout of vaccines while indulging in a superiority complex when comparing their approach with that of the rest of the world. They also forcefully broke up families and placed people in quarantine against their will, while we….never mind. Suffice it to say they were even tougher than us, and their scepticism of western vaccines will cause greater hardship.
It must be discombobulating for those, here and in China, or even say Victoria or Western Australia, who fully accepted their government’s then-line that there was no cost too high in the pursuit of zero Covid, to experiencing the current position of those same governments. I know the likes of Michael Baker finds it very confusing.
To the rest of us, it proves one thing. The management of Covid-19, particularly once vaccines were available, was as much a political decision as anything else. Politicians were fond of declaring they were just following the science, but they weren’t especially.
The science didn’t change that much. What changed was the political calculus. Once it was clear that scaring the bejesus out of people and locking them down was no longer politically profitable, politicians quickly moved on to playing down the virus and normalising it.
All this underlines that there wasn’t only one way of doing things. We had choices, particularly once vaccines became available in early 2021. And particularly in this country the second half of 2021 could have been very different if alternative but equally valid political choices had been made to those that were.
All this is relevant now because our Royal Commission into the Covid response starts work at the end of this month. Our Government deserves credit for, however belatedly, setting it up. It deserves less credit for placing the Reserve Bank’s actions off limits (how does the Governor live such a charmed life?) or for placing an epidemiologist in charge.
In my view there should definitely be one on the panel, and Tony Blakely seems to fit the bill well given his lack of direct involvement in the New Zealand response. However a more neutral arbiter between the health decisions and the other costs should have been chosen to lead it. The careful and thoughtful commissioner (and former Treasury Secretary) John Whitehead could have been ideal.
This Commission has a very important job to do. It needs to look at the costs and benefits of all the decisions made from a neutral perspective, and determine where better trade-offs could be made. It will be harder for an epidemiologist, however even-handed they try to be, to do that.
There are those of course who think we should forget about going over the entrails of the Covid response. They think it is pointless to look in the rearview mirror. Except that it isn’t the rearview mirror.
We are still living with the impact of the decisions made during the pandemic and the huge financial cost of those will be with us for years to come. The billions lost through quantitative easing could have bought a bunch of new hospitals or paid for a fair few water pipes.
The decision, unique to New Zealand, to shut down massive transport projects during lockdowns has now likely cost billions of dollars and years in delays, as reported just prior to Christmas. The massive fiscal burden has only been reduced by an inflation-driven rise in the tax take, which adds to the cost of living squeeze on kiwi families.
And then there is the human toll. There seems little doubt that some of the anti-social behaviour we are seeing and our falling education performance are a result of people being told that what society previously signalled was important didn’t turn out to be so important during that long 2021 lockdown – like going to school.
In bestowing a knighthood on the Director-General of Health so quickly, the government appears to have already passed judgement on its own performance. The rest of us should be more thoughtful. As our changing attitude to Covid risk in the last year shows, it is possible to make different choices with fewer long-term costs in calmer, more rational times. This, surely, is a lesson we should take from the last two years.
Steven Joyce: The job of the Covid inquiry - NZ Herald
We are still living with the impact of the decisions made during the pandemic.
Hardyman's Yugo
Maybe you are one of those people who doesn’t have enough blood in their alcohol to get it?
This was my thinking when i was the only 1 in my family not to get it, then ended up getting it in December and passing it on to my wife for the second time.
On a holiday back home (India, Punjab to be exact) and no one cares at all about covid over here. It's winter, people get colds and flu and no one cares about checking for covid. They just treat it as a normal cold. In saying that, if you get sick over here you get very strong medication that fixes you right up within 2 days. Obviously not good for the liver and probably why the people here have a lower life span along with the water quality. Also had a local doctor tell us that the WHO knows covid is going to be on going like the flu.
Rick O'Shay
Contributor
A longish read but interesting in terms of the workings of the "science" committees/govt and the gap between shots for young people. I'll post part 2 tomorrow.
cranmer.substack.com
Covid and our Kiwi Kids - Part 1
Prime Minister Ardern claimed that when making decisions relating to vaccination 'our No. 1 priority is the medical advice of our experts' but how accurate was her claim?
cranmer.substack.com
wizards rage
Third peak seems to be trending down again and each outbreak is smaller than the last.
bruce
I don't know the little dude, but apparently he is a grade a control freak and not overly popular.
john nick
bruce
A casual discussion I heard from two well known journalists...both whose opinions I respect...there are no secrets in Wellington
john nick
You said that you don't know the guy.
Do your casual overheard journalists know him.
..no secrets on this forum it would seem 😏
bruce
Just so you know...
I don't know the little jerk personally...but...
I know the guy who appointed him...
and why he was appointed
and the appointment process he went though,...
so I was not all surprised to her he was like that...it is the viper pit after all.
john nick
Hahaha Bruce. A little jerk in your opinion but you know absolutely nothing about him except for no named journalists.
I rest my case 😌.
Not really a fair summary. 😕
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