General Congratulations!!! you are now the new coach of the Warriors!!

Its a racist remark.
No it's not. What about GI. He's an Aussie. Or JT.

If your saying they aren't Aussies then maybe it's you who's being a little racist.

What they are saying is we need more players who've grown up in the Aussie league community. They alluded to the AB's and how they have better junior pathways... Well in League it's the Aussies who have 1,000,000 times better junior pathways than South Auckland.

If we want to be competitive, we have to tap into the best players in the world. And not confine ourselves to the best players in South Auckland... If that was a wining strategy we'd have won this comp already.
 
I'd be focussing on speed. Not just running speed, although that certainly needs to improve, but I'd be finding ways to make the team think faster, play the ball faster, hit the ball up faster, get to the player they're tackling faster, get off the ground faster, pass faster etc. Players that can't get faster aren't worth persevering with. Especially the ones that can't think faster because all the fitness in the world is useless if you can't make quick decisions under pressure.

Every game I've watched this year, the team has looked slower than their opposition. We used to have speed that other teams feared, where's that gone? When players are interviewed after their first NRL game, what do they all say? "It was a lot faster than what I'm used to playing", that's because speed is the difference between the semi-pro and the professional level of most sports.
 
Its a racist remark.

As somone pointed out earlier a team full of kiwis won the WC against a team full of Aussies.

And if i recall correctly we've won 2 of the last 3 trinations

They actually spoke a little bit longer about the Warriors on NRL360, but only uploaded about half of it in the video.

Paul Kent went on to say that he wasn't talking about race or ethnicity but rather development. He said we need more Australian developed players rather than New Zealand developed players. Whether he's right or not is debatable but I tend to agree.

Also, the international arena is a completely different kettle of fish. It's difficult to relate test success to club success as there are to0 many varying factors.
 
  • Like
Reactions: francis faafua
Its a racist remark.

It's realistic not racist. He's spot on. Their development is nothing compared to the aussie development, are you going to argue this? On raw talent we shit on them, but on the other, crucial aspects of the game, mental, 1%ers, the grind.. they've most certainly got the wood over us.
 
What's gets me is that every prick in Aussie no's what's wrong with the Warriors yet Kearney and Doyle are in Denial
They know exactly what the problem is. But the are stuck in lala land believing they can change the players to make them the best in the world. When really they just need to change the players...
 
Nothing I could do would put things right at the Warriors
Bennett or Bellamy or even both together would struggle so what hope would I have
Look at Bennett with Newcastle. In the end even he said "Fuck It" and went back to Brisbane
But if I had sole control? Nothing short of a clean out from the owner to the newest kid that has been signed will be effective
Including Saint Stacey. Everybody gone
Put in a Phil Gould type to start again with a clean slate
Run the club as an NRL club, not a Kiwi club or an old boys club. If the best 17 on the day are all from other countries so be it. Play them
If the best management comes from somewhere else hire them. And the coaching staff
Maybe have a Survivor style management approach
Give the player of the day immunity and demote and fine the dick head of the day
Maybe even pay decent win bonuses
Show the supporters that winning is the most important thing to the club management and players

I was going to say shoot the dickhead of the day but that would make offshore recruitment even harder
And it's probably wrong or against the law or bullying or some
 

1995Warriorsfan

Player Agent
Contributor
Interesting article by Budge (playtheball).

I am having to agree with him again ;)

NRL: The Warriors - what's wrong and how to fix it


ZGSK7WAUDZHNBPMBG2QO7CSKZA.jpg

Dejected Warriors players in last week's lost to Cronulla. Photo / Photosport
2b6e6ac9-a4d4-4a1b-a87d-3cc957d029fe.png

By: Dale Budge

When you look through the 2017 roster there are a number of players commanding big chunks of cap space that haven't delivered true value on their contract - Manu Vatuvei, Ben Matulino, Issac Luke, Jacob Lillyman, Shaun Johnson and Ryan Hoffman to name a few obvious ones. Sure James Gavet, Blake Ayshford, Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad and Kieran Foran (thanks to his bargain contract) have probably over-delivered. End result is the Warriors haven't got value out of their cap. They've paid as much as teams that will fight out the premiership but don't have much to show for it.

Then you throw in the variables that impact on real cap value and this is where it really hurts for the Warriors. Being the only club outside of Australia and with a reputation of not exactly being a place to kick-start an NRL career, the Warriors have had trouble recruiting top talent from Australia. To get players they have probably had to pay overs, hurting their true salary cap.

Not fair you might say. Not exactly - the Warriors have a major advantage in that they are the only team in New Zealand. Local lads will have incentives to want to stay in New Zealand to play their footy - family, relationships, comfortable lifestyle - there are plenty of reasons. Simon Mannering has never really even looked overseas properly. The Warriors should really be getting a home town discount on home grown players that should offset the cost of recruiting from overseas.

Wayne Scurrah's Warriors outfit figured that out a decade or more ago. Problem is the development has been terrible and that is the key reason why the Warriors haven't enjoyed more success in recent years. The Warriors have been a development club that simply hasn't spat out NRL-ready first graders, which is the key way to balance your roster and manage your salary cap.


FEJKKDGCFFEJRNZULXQTIVGW64.JPG

Jim Doyle is tasked with fixing the Warriors. Photo / Photosport

The reality is the Warriors actually haven't poured enough resources into player development at a lower level. They haven't recruited the best types of juniors and there have been far too many kids "filling jerseys" rather than actually being part of the long-term solution.

Another big question is around whether local kids are getting taught the right skills in junior footy before the Warriors even take a look at them. Why is it that the Blues and Warriors struggle so much despite having the biggest footy nursey in the country? Too many Pacific Islanders? I hear that comment a lot. While not particularly nice it is a point that should be examined even if to rule it out. The percentage of Pasifika players playing in both competitions has risen dramatically over the last two decades - there doesn't seem to be an issue at other clubs that have more Pasifika talent than others. Auckland seems to be common theme there rather than race. I think we can effectively rule out the race concept. But why do Auckland players seem so much more flawed than others? Maybe that is something worth putting some serious thought into at another time.

So the Warriors haven't received any real benefit from developing their own talent despite relying on it - queue the defensive lapses, the inconsistency etc. Players in first grade, on first grade contracts, are playing catch-up, having to learn how to be professional footy players while the club is trying unsuccessfully to sign better players from overseas and having to blow the budget getting players that can't deliver as much as they need them to. Coaches are having to teach rather than focusing on coming up with strategies and techniques. That shouldn't happen at NRL level.

A way around this in the short term is to balance some local talent by recruiting juniors from Australia. Until now the Warriors haven't had the resources to do that effectively. While they might have a rich owner in Eric Watson the club hasn't been given unlimited finances to spend on the football department. In fact the Warriors have actually struggled to balance the books each year and so spending on junior development, scouting, mental skills etc has actually been a luxury they haven't been able to afford. Crazy when the club has claimed to be a development club for so long. The previous regime didn't always spend the full salary cap - using what could have been spent on players to balance the business books.

This is all changing under Jim Doyle's watch. The Under 20s are now a feeder team, with the core task of producing NRL-ready talent. More resources are being spent on player development and scouting as the commercial aspects of the club improves. As an example the club is likely to invest in getting some of their players playing in the SG Ball competition - an Under 18 competition that rival clubs have benefitted from over the years. In time these changes in tactic will produce some fruit but it isn't helping them right now.

There lies the problem for Doyle and coach Stephen Kearney. To get this club where it needs to be might actually take a number of years of work, putting in the appropriate building blocks and getting that real cap value back to even or better. In Kearney they have a methodical and determined character, who has seen first-hand how clubs should be run during his time in Melbourne and Brisbane and someone who could see this through.

Kearney has already started the re-build. Look at the Warriors forwards this season. Gone for next year are Ben Matulino, Jacob Lillyman, Ryan Hoffman, Charlie Gubb and Bodene Thompson. James Gavet earned a new contract while Albert Vete is cost-effective. Clearly Kearney recognised the team's forward pack was poor.

But fans have been waiting far too long for a competitive Warriors outfit. Already many are calling for Kearney's head - as if another coaching change would sort this mess out. The crowds have declined all season and you get the feeling less people are paying attention to the Warriors at the moment. Sponsorship revenue and gate takings are needed to help fund the improvements and so Doyle is left with a balancing act of weighing up the methodical rebuild with the risky notion of quick fix attempts.

The methodical one is the smart play but that relies on patience from everyone. Patience that has long run out when it comes to the Warriors.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/league/news/article.cfm?c_id=79&objectid=11898410
 
We haven't won a game without Shaun Johnson for a long time. I can't remember the last game we won without him playing? Anyone?

Lillyman isn't giving away silly penalties and leaking easy tries..

Luke has been cold and is getting hotter. But he's not on massive money anyway. Maybe he's protesting his low wages by not putting in..

Hoffman was always going to be an experienced player who needs the youth to help make up for his physical age. Not a chance of that happening at the Warriors.

So once again we're blaming the problems on our big name individuals not performing.

Reality check: It's all the juniors who are holding us down. It's us hoping they'll develop, and them not developing. Year after year this has been going on. PTB is just playing into their player agents hands on this one.

I'm not a fan of his work. Obviously. lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ttkk19
We haven't won a game without Shaun Johnson for a long time. I can't remember the last game we won without him playing? Anyone?

Lillyman isn't giving away silly penalties and leaking easy tries..

Luke has been cold and is getting hotter. But he's not on massive money anyway. Maybe he's protesting his low wages by not putting in..

Hoffman was always going to be an experienced player who needs the youth to help make up for his physical age. Not a chance of that happening at the Warriors.

So once again we're blaming the problems on our big name individuals not performing.

Reality check: It's all the juniors who are holding us down. It's us hoping they'll develop, and them not developing. Year after year this has been going on. PTB is just playing into their player agents hands on this one.

I'm not a fan of his work. Obviously. lol.

Last one I can remember was 2014-15 against Raiders when we smashed them by about 40-50 points
 
  • Like
Reactions: ttkk19 and jonno
Last one I can remember was 2014-15 against Raiders when we smashed them by about 40-50 points
I remember that now. Round 21, 2014. :p

The Raiders were absolute mud that day, we only really had to show up and run towards their try line, that's how bad they were. I don't really class that as a victory to us, more of a catastrophic loss by them.

And true to form the 18 soft points we leaked at the end of that game cost us 8th place at the end of the season.
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
Interesting article by Budge (playtheball).

I am having to agree with him again ;)

NRL: The Warriors - what's wrong and how to fix it


ZGSK7WAUDZHNBPMBG2QO7CSKZA.jpg

Dejected Warriors players in last week's lost to Cronulla. Photo / Photosport
2b6e6ac9-a4d4-4a1b-a87d-3cc957d029fe.png

By: Dale Budge

When you look through the 2017 roster there are a number of players commanding big chunks of cap space that haven't delivered true value on their contract - Manu Vatuvei, Ben Matulino, Issac Luke, Jacob Lillyman, Shaun Johnson and Ryan Hoffman to name a few obvious ones. Sure James Gavet, Blake Ayshford, Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad and Kieran Foran (thanks to his bargain contract) have probably over-delivered. End result is the Warriors haven't got value out of their cap. They've paid as much as teams that will fight out the premiership but don't have much to show for it.

Then you throw in the variables that impact on real cap value and this is where it really hurts for the Warriors. Being the only club outside of Australia and with a reputation of not exactly being a place to kick-start an NRL career, the Warriors have had trouble recruiting top talent from Australia. To get players they have probably had to pay overs, hurting their true salary cap.

Not fair you might say. Not exactly - the Warriors have a major advantage in that they are the only team in New Zealand. Local lads will have incentives to want to stay in New Zealand to play their footy - family, relationships, comfortable lifestyle - there are plenty of reasons. Simon Mannering has never really even looked overseas properly. The Warriors should really be getting a home town discount on home grown players that should offset the cost of recruiting from overseas.

Wayne Scurrah's Warriors outfit figured that out a decade or more ago. Problem is the development has been terrible and that is the key reason why the Warriors haven't enjoyed more success in recent years. The Warriors have been a development club that simply hasn't spat out NRL-ready first graders, which is the key way to balance your roster and manage your salary cap.


FEJKKDGCFFEJRNZULXQTIVGW64.JPG

Jim Doyle is tasked with fixing the Warriors. Photo / Photosport

The reality is the Warriors actually haven't poured enough resources into player development at a lower level. They haven't recruited the best types of juniors and there have been far too many kids "filling jerseys" rather than actually being part of the long-term solution.

Another big question is around whether local kids are getting taught the right skills in junior footy before the Warriors even take a look at them. Why is it that the Blues and Warriors struggle so much despite having the biggest footy nursey in the country? Too many Pacific Islanders? I hear that comment a lot. While not particularly nice it is a point that should be examined even if to rule it out. The percentage of Pasifika players playing in both competitions has risen dramatically over the last two decades - there doesn't seem to be an issue at other clubs that have more Pasifika talent than others. Auckland seems to be common theme there rather than race. I think we can effectively rule out the race concept. But why do Auckland players seem so much more flawed than others? Maybe that is something worth putting some serious thought into at another time.

So the Warriors haven't received any real benefit from developing their own talent despite relying on it - queue the defensive lapses, the inconsistency etc. Players in first grade, on first grade contracts, are playing catch-up, having to learn how to be professional footy players while the club is trying unsuccessfully to sign better players from overseas and having to blow the budget getting players that can't deliver as much as they need them to. Coaches are having to teach rather than focusing on coming up with strategies and techniques. That shouldn't happen at NRL level.

A way around this in the short term is to balance some local talent by recruiting juniors from Australia. Until now the Warriors haven't had the resources to do that effectively. While they might have a rich owner in Eric Watson the club hasn't been given unlimited finances to spend on the football department. In fact the Warriors have actually struggled to balance the books each year and so spending on junior development, scouting, mental skills etc has actually been a luxury they haven't been able to afford. Crazy when the club has claimed to be a development club for so long. The previous regime didn't always spend the full salary cap - using what could have been spent on players to balance the business books.

This is all changing under Jim Doyle's watch. The Under 20s are now a feeder team, with the core task of producing NRL-ready talent. More resources are being spent on player development and scouting as the commercial aspects of the club improves. As an example the club is likely to invest in getting some of their players playing in the SG Ball competition - an Under 18 competition that rival clubs have benefitted from over the years. In time these changes in tactic will produce some fruit but it isn't helping them right now.

There lies the problem for Doyle and coach Stephen Kearney. To get this club where it needs to be might actually take a number of years of work, putting in the appropriate building blocks and getting that real cap value back to even or better. In Kearney they have a methodical and determined character, who has seen first-hand how clubs should be run during his time in Melbourne and Brisbane and someone who could see this through.

Kearney has already started the re-build. Look at the Warriors forwards this season. Gone for next year are Ben Matulino, Jacob Lillyman, Ryan Hoffman, Charlie Gubb and Bodene Thompson. James Gavet earned a new contract while Albert Vete is cost-effective. Clearly Kearney recognised the team's forward pack was poor.

But fans have been waiting far too long for a competitive Warriors outfit. Already many are calling for Kearney's head - as if another coaching change would sort this mess out. The crowds have declined all season and you get the feeling less people are paying attention to the Warriors at the moment. Sponsorship revenue and gate takings are needed to help fund the improvements and so Doyle is left with a balancing act of weighing up the methodical rebuild with the risky notion of quick fix attempts.

The methodical one is the smart play but that relies on patience from everyone. Patience that has long run out when it comes to the Warriors.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/league/news/article.cfm?c_id=79&objectid=11898410
good article. I always remember that Brisbane fans once wanted Bennetts head on a block because of poor results and it took a board with guts to keep him and let him craft a team his way to get the results.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mt.wellington
Last one I can remember was 2014-15 against Raiders when we smashed them by about 40-50 points
Pretty close (although I did have to go on to the rugbyleagueproject.org site to see). The weekend after we thrashed the Raiders in August 2014 54-18, we beat the Sharks 16-12. In both games, the halves were Townsend (6) and Leuluai (7). For the last game we won that season, Johnson was back against the Titans.
 

Beastmode

Just another day in paradise
Contributor
Interesting article by Budge (playtheball).

I am having to agree with him again ;)

Kearney has already started the re-build. Look at the Warriors forwards this season. Gone for next year are Ben Matulino, Jacob Lillyman, Ryan Hoffman, Charlie Gubb and Bodene Thompson. James Gavet earned a new contract while Albert Vete is cost-effective. Clearly Kearney recognised the team's forward pack was poor.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/league/news/article.cfm?c_id=79&objectid=11898410

SK recognising something everyone already knows. Yeah, what a genius.

The question that has yet to be answered is who is he replacing them with?????

That is where he will be judged.

Its easy to tear shit down.
 
Pretty close (although I did have to go on to the rugbyleagueproject.org site to see). The weekend after we thrashed the Raiders in August 2014 54-18, we beat the Sharks 16-12. In both games, the halves were Townsend (6) and Leuluai (7). For the last game we won that season, Johnson was back against the Titans.

Oh ok, sounds right
 
Interesting article by Budge (playtheball).

I am having to agree with him again ;)

NRL: The Warriors - what's wrong and how to fix it


ZGSK7WAUDZHNBPMBG2QO7CSKZA.jpg

Dejected Warriors players in last week's lost to Cronulla. Photo / Photosport
2b6e6ac9-a4d4-4a1b-a87d-3cc957d029fe.png

By: Dale Budge

When you look through the 2017 roster there are a number of players commanding big chunks of cap space that haven't delivered true value on their contract - Manu Vatuvei, Ben Matulino, Issac Luke, Jacob Lillyman, Shaun Johnson and Ryan Hoffman to name a few obvious ones. Sure James Gavet, Blake Ayshford, Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad and Kieran Foran (thanks to his bargain contract) have probably over-delivered. End result is the Warriors haven't got value out of their cap. They've paid as much as teams that will fight out the premiership but don't have much to show for it.

Then you throw in the variables that impact on real cap value and this is where it really hurts for the Warriors. Being the only club outside of Australia and with a reputation of not exactly being a place to kick-start an NRL career, the Warriors have had trouble recruiting top talent from Australia. To get players they have probably had to pay overs, hurting their true salary cap.

Not fair you might say. Not exactly - the Warriors have a major advantage in that they are the only team in New Zealand. Local lads will have incentives to want to stay in New Zealand to play their footy - family, relationships, comfortable lifestyle - there are plenty of reasons. Simon Mannering has never really even looked overseas properly. The Warriors should really be getting a home town discount on home grown players that should offset the cost of recruiting from overseas.

Wayne Scurrah's Warriors outfit figured that out a decade or more ago. Problem is the development has been terrible and that is the key reason why the Warriors haven't enjoyed more success in recent years. The Warriors have been a development club that simply hasn't spat out NRL-ready first graders, which is the key way to balance your roster and manage your salary cap.


FEJKKDGCFFEJRNZULXQTIVGW64.JPG

Jim Doyle is tasked with fixing the Warriors. Photo / Photosport

The reality is the Warriors actually haven't poured enough resources into player development at a lower level. They haven't recruited the best types of juniors and there have been far too many kids "filling jerseys" rather than actually being part of the long-term solution.

Another big question is around whether local kids are getting taught the right skills in junior footy before the Warriors even take a look at them. Why is it that the Blues and Warriors struggle so much despite having the biggest footy nursey in the country? Too many Pacific Islanders? I hear that comment a lot. While not particularly nice it is a point that should be examined even if to rule it out. The percentage of Pasifika players playing in both competitions has risen dramatically over the last two decades - there doesn't seem to be an issue at other clubs that have more Pasifika talent than others. Auckland seems to be common theme there rather than race. I think we can effectively rule out the race concept. But why do Auckland players seem so much more flawed than others? Maybe that is something worth putting some serious thought into at another time.

So the Warriors haven't received any real benefit from developing their own talent despite relying on it - queue the defensive lapses, the inconsistency etc. Players in first grade, on first grade contracts, are playing catch-up, having to learn how to be professional footy players while the club is trying unsuccessfully to sign better players from overseas and having to blow the budget getting players that can't deliver as much as they need them to. Coaches are having to teach rather than focusing on coming up with strategies and techniques. That shouldn't happen at NRL level.

A way around this in the short term is to balance some local talent by recruiting juniors from Australia. Until now the Warriors haven't had the resources to do that effectively. While they might have a rich owner in Eric Watson the club hasn't been given unlimited finances to spend on the football department. In fact the Warriors have actually struggled to balance the books each year and so spending on junior development, scouting, mental skills etc has actually been a luxury they haven't been able to afford. Crazy when the club has claimed to be a development club for so long. The previous regime didn't always spend the full salary cap - using what could have been spent on players to balance the business books.

This is all changing under Jim Doyle's watch. The Under 20s are now a feeder team, with the core task of producing NRL-ready talent. More resources are being spent on player development and scouting as the commercial aspects of the club improves. As an example the club is likely to invest in getting some of their players playing in the SG Ball competition - an Under 18 competition that rival clubs have benefitted from over the years. In time these changes in tactic will produce some fruit but it isn't helping them right now.

There lies the problem for Doyle and coach Stephen Kearney. To get this club where it needs to be might actually take a number of years of work, putting in the appropriate building blocks and getting that real cap value back to even or better. In Kearney they have a methodical and determined character, who has seen first-hand how clubs should be run during his time in Melbourne and Brisbane and someone who could see this through.

Kearney has already started the re-build. Look at the Warriors forwards this season. Gone for next year are Ben Matulino, Jacob Lillyman, Ryan Hoffman, Charlie Gubb and Bodene Thompson. James Gavet earned a new contract while Albert Vete is cost-effective. Clearly Kearney recognised the team's forward pack was poor.

But fans have been waiting far too long for a competitive Warriors outfit. Already many are calling for Kearney's head - as if another coaching change would sort this mess out. The crowds have declined all season and you get the feeling less people are paying attention to the Warriors at the moment. Sponsorship revenue and gate takings are needed to help fund the improvements and so Doyle is left with a balancing act of weighing up the methodical rebuild with the risky notion of quick fix attempts.

The methodical one is the smart play but that relies on patience from everyone. Patience that has long run out when it comes to the Warriors.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/league/news/article.cfm?c_id=79&objectid=11898410
To be Frank Budge is using the development argument I have posted on Warriors Websites for Longer than he has had media lunches.

I absolutely agree then with what he has talked about in this article.

But Dale here's the material you are missing for you next article:

You say that the Auckland Systems inability to develop players is an argument for another day because you don't know why that is the case.

To understand the picture fully you would need to have experience of the Auckland system and the Sydney system/Queensland wotever as a young local NZ product.

This is what was happening in the eighties (Hate to think where they are at now).

NZ Rugby league was a pathway to proving your manhood....your toughness....like kids enrol in MMA now.

Australian Rugby League at School boy level in the 1980's (the era of Television) was a semi professional environment with highly motivated and skilled coaches at school let alone club.

PLaying game here you had the mentality that if you lose on the score board you can make up for it by winning the rough stuff (Big hits and fights) and turning on some brilliant individual effort which may see you win player of the day...salvage something from the loss.

In Australia you are trained to use set plays and calls, the game is a way of life which every other man plays....so there is no need to prove one upmanship over the others.

In the Aussie Comp kids are talking all the time....calling moves....calling defence.....

Here the only person talking is the loudmouth in the team....one of the spine players.

The fundamental differences will see nz never catch up.

There is no advantage in having this local system of best picks, that part of your article is fanciful.

Grassroots in NZ is coached by volunteers.

Grassroots in Aus is coached by P.E teachers and other school teachers that have played are are trained in teaching skills.

That's your problem.

Aus has one thousand better kid coaches than here.....because they are allowed to play the dam game at school.
 
Last edited:
For me I would want to get past the Crappy's 'ball security's mantra. Yeah silly errors hurt us but this season we are pretty high on completions but look no better for it.

I would accept errors for more expansive play, work on skill execution at speed, encourage running in two's and three's with Roger Tuivasa-Sheck shadowing our big men up the middle looking for the offload. As a team you would want to focus on our individual strength's and not our weaknesses, our strength has always been second phase, our weakness is defence , so we would need to tire the opposition out with extended plays with offloads and spread of the ball.

I would re-sign Thompson as he has been a quality player over the years, mix up the backline a little as we have too many similar players in it. As good as he has been I would move Ayshford in to a bench second row/backline cover role, move Fusitua to centre and put CNK on the wing.

Lillyman would be getting his minutes gradually decreased whilst gradually increasing Vete, Gavets (when back from injury) and Lisone as they are the future of our forward pack and start giving Mannering rests here and there because he looks tired.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ttkk19