General Club Culture Part 3 - Cappys Reign

snake77

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 12, 2013
10,195
Auckland
It goes even deeper than what's mentioned above.

When he came, apparently Doyle told everyone that he was going to hold them all (including himself) to more accountability off the field but also promised that the players/staff's welfare would be far greater under him. I know of at least one time when he's personally stepped in to help a fringe player and his family/parents with an issue that could have been a complete disaster for the player. Others have told of how he's personally eased the concerns of very religious parents about the exposure young players to things their parents see as "undesirable" and the measures to "protect" these kids.

The players aren't just responding to Cappy - they're loving what they see in Doyle and what he's brought to the club.
A lot of the great managers take an interest in their staff outside the work place. You hear this about Bennett often or Sheens turning up in Whakatane for a funeral for one of Benji Marshall's family.

This sort of stuff makes employees happen and will help with us retaining players. Sure we will still lose players as they may get a better opportunity elsewhere but it will be hard to leave a environment that makes you happy, looks out for you outside of the club environment.
 

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Jun 21, 2012
22,810
Mt. Wellington, Auckland
I agree. I was just saying that I find it interesting that all these young players being given a shot are taking their opportunity (grabbing a number closer to the front of the queue, if you will, but still behind the established fg players) and then being cycled back into cup. This is normal for every club/team, I know, but I can't remember the last time that 1 club has had as many rookie players come through with the success as we've had, all in the one year.

From a cultural perspective, it's great with increased competition for spots raising expectations, standards and performances. But it also raises other issues. With so many of our good young players showing they are fg capable (if not ready outright) at the same time, we become a focus for scout sharks (more so probably than usual). It then behooves the club to sign-up the best of the talent (which I think it has done) and also keep these young guns happy with good player management. Even with a player of Manu's standing in front of them (let alone someone like Hurrell or another rookie like Kata), it's always harder to drop a player from fg when they're performing well in a winning team. When you have this happening frequently (sometimes more than 1 well performing rookie being dropped in one week), it does place some increased onus on the club to manage the situation (the queue, if you will) well. Clearly, young players like Vete, Lisone, Gubb, Tui, Fusitua, Maumolo, etc. know they have established players in front of them who've earned their fg spot (whether starting or bench), but this doesn't stop these young guns wanting to establish themselves in fg (to think otherwise is delusional, imo). They can only do this by taking the opportunity when it's offered. When they do that and are still demoted, the situation needs to handled well. I'm not suggesting this isn't happening (Cappy's saying all the right things about resting young players to prevent burn out, the importance of balancing experience and youth in the team, etc., etc.), I'm just saying that it's one of those 'behind the scenes' aspects of the game I find interesting, especially given our club's boom rookie situation this year.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm very curious about what Cappy does if some (or all) of these young guns (Tui, Fusitua and RFM especially) again have blinders vs the Roosters. I fully expect Manu and Hoff to come back in the following week (though I could see Hurrell missing out if Tui or Fusitua show more of last weeks form), but then what if the experienced players don't fire (it's not like Hoff hasn't had the odd flat game and Manu hasn't had some issues this year) and we lose to Manly that week? The pressure builds (in what will be a tough game vs the Sharks and our top 4 aspirations at stake) with these young guys circling (I suppose like sharks themselves in a way) in cup. As you say, high caliber players don't play reserves unless their form dictates it, but as form is always to some extent a comparative exercise (regarding the likely replacement), it also has to take into account the form of the player that could take that spot. Like I said, fascinating.

Going back to culture, accountability has to be universal for it to mean anything in an organisation. No one (and I mean no one, from the CEO to the Coach to the Captain to the guy who manages interchange) should be exempt. That's the only way it works. The club/team comes first, foremost and always, ahead of any individual. It doesn't mean standing is dismissed, it just means that it can't be the sole factor. For mine, Manu comes back into the team (this week, next or whenever) not because he's Manu (with all that he's done in the past), but because of what he'll bring to the team this (or next) week. A few issues with errors aside (he's been the worst at times, but hardly the sole offender), his form has been way too strong to leave him out. However, If there comes a time (unlikely as it may seem) where a rookie players form is so consistently good that he'll almost certainly (picking teams is obviously an exercise in prediction) bring more to the side that week than a more experienced player (regardless of who), then the question has to be asked. A true culture of accountability demands it.
Some deep shit there bro.

The scenario you detail in your post is an interesting one isnt it.

Senior players will always deserve selection over young bucks. In Manu Vatuvei's case you dont play 200 NRL games without attaining a level of mana that even the best performing juniors know and respect. Even a journeyman like Jonathan Wright would know he's merely filling a spot vacated by injury.

Were it gets interesting is when, as you stated, a junior has a blinder. Do they warrant selection over the senior they replace? IMO the answer is no. Tuimoala Lolohea will never automatically keep his spot over Manu. Raymond Faitala-Mariner will never automatically keep his spot over Ryan Hoffman. Charlie Gubb or Sam Lisone played at Lock will never in a thousand years automatically keep their spot over Simon Mannering. Both aforementioned fringe players would never automatically keep their spot over Ben Matulino.

When off games and bad performances become a pattern I expect Cappy to strike. The precedent with Cappy has actually already been set with the way he handled Dane Nielsen's poor form. Old Danger could do no wrong in the eyes of Matt Elliott. Shortly after Cappy stepped to the top job Dane was put on notice after continued poor form (As well as dropping an out of shape Feleti Mateo and defensively poor Konrad Hurrell). Dane's replacement was rookie Ngani Laumape. Ngani made the position his own until he was suspended for lifting in a tackle. That opened the door for Dane's return.

I dont expect players like Mannering and Matulino to have continued bad form. Far too good, prepared and professional. I do expect Manu Vatuvei to get put on notice if his fumbles outweigh his usefulness to the team and get dropped if it isnt rectified. Assuming of course there's a better replacement. Jonathan Wright couldnt hold a candle to the Beast and wouldnt keep Manu out for long if it ever did happen...
 
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Selector

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 2, 2015
2,283
Article talking about the current stability at the club. Think the stability the club is currently experiencing has a lot to do with the positive culture that Doyle and McFadden have bought to the club.

Warriors defying their history with settled approach
Fri 17 Jul, 2015, 5:28pm
By Corey Rosser, NZ Correspondent
image.ashx


Scattered through the history of every Telstra Premiership club are tales of hardship and survival.

In a game which prides itself on working class roots those stories are badges of honour; just look at the role it played in the narrative of South Sydney's premiership victory last season.

While the Warriors have existed for only 20 years, more than 80 less than a couple of the other teams who will line up in the NRL's Heritage Round this weekend, they have managed to compile a list of ups and downs long enough to rival most.

The club's former financial controller, Brian Mills, was there from the very start, when a spot in the then named Winfield Cup was just a pipe dream.

He remained there until 2001, through some the club's most tumultuous times.

"I think the really terrible thing that happened in the early days was Super League; we were flying high in 1995 and the war really threw us back for the next three to four years," Mills told NRL.com.

"I think the first year we sold 15,000 season tickets, and the second year when the war was on we got up to about 13,000 and then all that happened.

"In the end we sold about 11,000 because people cancelled. At that period of time there was a lot of stress on the club.

"Super League put a lot of money into the idea, but I don’t think the Warriors did very well."

The club has long been viewed as an unstable one in many senses, with a high turnover of coaches and an inconsistent ability to qualify for the finals, but Mills believes the Warriors are a far more settled place these days.

"To get that recipe with all the components completely right is never going to happen in any case. Even the Broncos have sacked a coach or two and had bad years," Mills said.

"You have good years and bad years, but the big difference I have noticed in recent years is that the Warriors are about the football and not the people behind it.

"The last two chief executives - Wayne Scurrah and Jim Doyle - are different in a sense they know it's not about them, it's about the club.

"I think they have got that right now, it's all about the players.

"I think the club is very settled these days."

Captain Simon Mannering mirrored those thoughts, comparing the difference in environment from when he debuted in 2005 to today, when the club is performing well on and off the field.

"There were a few changes just before I came with new coaches and things," Mannering said.

"Being a young guy I didn’t know any different.

"Hopefully now it’s going well and we can build some off-field stability which translates onto it.

"Anytime you get stability off the field it generally shows on it. I think Jim Doyle coming in has helped and Andrew McFadden having had a full year as coach."

The Warriors meet the Roosters this Sunday, who have the honour of being the only club to play in every round of the competition since its inception in 1908.

The two teams have some history between them as well, with the Warriors' first ever grand final appearance being against the Tricolours back in 2002.

https://m.nrl.com/warriors-defying-...pproach/tabid/10874/newsid/88092/default.aspx
 
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Richie

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 28, 2012
372
I dont expect players like Mannering and Matulino to have continued bad form. Far too good, prepared and professional. I do expect Manu Vatuvei to get put on notice if his fumbles outweigh his usefulness to the team and get dropped if it isnt rectified. Assuming of course there's a better replacement. Jonathan Wright couldnt hold a candle to the Beast and wouldnt keep Manu out for long if it ever did happen...

Outside of the boom rookie phenomenon we're currently experiencing, the best thing about this season for me has been Mutt's return to elite form. From what I'm reading, all our young props are feeding off this, which in turn pushes Ben to keep it up. It's a beautiful cycle and precisely what this club needs. Not discounting Bull's influence at all, but I think it's pretty natural for the younger local lads to look to someone like Ben for inspiration, being a local junior and having played through 20s like they have. It's funny though, that it wasn't so long ago that inconsistency had him as a fringe starter/bench player. I wonder if it's anything Cappy (or Doyle) has done to bring about this form fruition.

I don't like using the word 'automatic' when talking any player's selection. The word automatic indicates a selection comfort zone that I don't think is constructive to continuing player performance. 1st pick, yes, and that deservedly goes to quality players who've proven their worth over time, but the distance between 1st and 2nd picks is different to talking about automatic selections and the rest. The difference between 1st and 2nd pick is always value based, whereas automatic selection indicates entitlement. I know some say past form earns entitlement, but I'd disagree. It gets you to the front of the queue and keeps you there, but only as long as it's in the best interests of the team. That doesn't necessarily mean you get dropped after 1 or 2 bad games, but it does mean that your spot at the front of the line is dependent on the needs of the team and relative to the value of your competition, and not solely dependent on who you are (your standing) and what you've done in the past. I know this probably reads as a very cold or mercenary thing to say, but we're talking professional sport here, not family ties (despite how passionate some of us are about our team).

I know some (*cough* jono *cough*) might find this unfair, but for mine, Wright is in a different boat to the likes of Laumape, Maumolo and Fusitua. At 28, and in good form it must be acknowledged, Wright has probably shown all he has to show. He's a reliable (in most situations) winger who is capable of above average defensive games. That has value, without a doubt, and if it's what's needed on any particular week (all other things taken into account), Cappy has shown he'll get the call up. That's how it is for cover players. Despite his service, this would be Friend's fate next year if he chose to stay (though with less depth at 9, he'd probably still be our 2nd pick hooker). Depth players are expected to be mature enough to know their lot and accept it, without needing their egos and feelings massaged.

The difference between a Wright and a Fusitua is obviously that Fusitua hasn't peaked yet, so his optimal value to the team hasn't yet been determined. That means he (and other young inexperienced players) need more opportunity than a player like Wright to develop their potential and demonstrate their value to Cappy, Doyle and Co. As they're more likely to be poached by other clubs, it also places a higher player management burden on the club. While it might seem counter-intuitive to what I was saying about past value, future value does have currency and need to be taken into account in club selections across the grades.

As this thread is about culture, I'll bring it back to that. For mine, culture is a balance thing and I take a utilitarian view to it. A good culture understands all it's composite member types, i.e. elite, rookie, cover players, locals and imports, singles and married, players from different ethnicities, grass roots clubs and comps, etc., as well as staff, community, volunteer and sponsor considerations; and taking all its various members needs into account, finds a way to keep the most people as happy as possible for as long as possible. That's a HUGE ask, obviously, but it's the reality (at least imo) of what good clubs have to do on a day-to-day basis. Going by the lack of negative press we're hearing at the moment (of course on-field success helps with this), I'd say Doyle and Cappy (and everyone else in the organisation) are doing a fine job of building and maintaining a successful culture. Long may it continue.
 
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jonno

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 13, 2014
9,803
I think one thing that Warriors fans expect from our players is for them to be one man bands,
one-man-band-11.jpg

who can get the ball and create a try out of nothing all by themselves...

That's why a guy like Jono Wright doesn't get the respect he deserves from some. He's more of a team player who relies on the players around him before he can deliver up a try...

It's also why he's our best defensive back ATM... He plays his specific role in the defensive line very well...

I'd be more than happy for any of our other more naturally gifted outside backs to rest that title off him. In fact I'd love it... But that would take an even bigger culture shift across the club than what we've already seen so far...
 
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Freddie Futler

1st Grade Fringe
Jun 10, 2013
2,235
Tauranga
I think one thing that Warriors fans expect from our players is for them to be one man bands, who can get the ball and create a try out of nothing... That's why a guy like Jono Wright doesn't get the respect he deserves from some. He's more of a team player who relies on the players around him before he can deliver up a try...

It's also why he's our best defensive back ATM... He plays his specific role in the defensive line very well...

I'd be more than happy for any of our other more naturally gifted outside backs to rest that title off him. In fact I'd love it... But that would take an even bigger culture shift across the club than what we've already seen so far...
This site may come in handy :D

https://www.nzmusicteachers.co.nz/auckland/trumpet-lessons/
 
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mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Jun 21, 2012
22,810
Mt. Wellington, Auckland
Sam Tomkins: Warriors lacked professionalism
12:30 PM Saturday Aug 8, 2015
tomkins_620x310.jpg

Sam Tomkins says a lot has changed with the Warriors since he arrived. Photo / Getty

Things have changed a lot during my time at the Warriors. Although we are frustrated with our recent results, there has been considerable progress in many areas.

I was quite surprised at the culture when I first arrived here in January 2014. It wasn't very strict compared to what I had been used to.

It was a little more relaxed, which isn't necessarily is a good thing and, overall, there probably wasn't enough discipline.

It became obvious things like punctuality - people would be late more often than I had experienced - or not doing the right things in training or away from the club were happening. Essentially, individuals were not being entirely professional.

Even though you might be at training for five or six hours a day, it doesn't stop there - you have a duty to be looking after yourself and not everyone was doing that.

It was polar opposites compared to my experiences in England.

At Wigan, standards didn't get compromised. It was a shock for me here at first but it's definitely moving in the right direction and completely different to how it was. It's now becoming that strict, professional environment paramount for success.

Chief executive Jim Doyle and coach Andrew McFadden have been driving the new culture but no one person can make every change at once. It's got to evolve, through the players and staff.

At Wigan it took us a long time. When Michael Maguire arrived as coach in 2010, he was the catalyst for a transformation. He turned everything on its head.

On and off the field, the discipline was much tougher and training become harder.

Overall, it was a lot stricter and there were fines in place for people doing the wrong things ... which was nothing like it had been before.

At first, not everyone bought into it. Michael had to develop things until everyone wanted to be part of it, which eventually happened. Over two years it changed and then Shaun Wane, who had been Maguire's assistant, continued that ethos.

In terms of this year, we have to keep pushing to finish the season strongly. The last three games have hurt but we have played teams who have just been better than us on the day. But you don't suddenly become a bad side over a couple of weeks and we still believe in ourselves.

We need to look at how we have played before and the good things we have done in recent weeks. By dwelling on that, we can build confidence. We are the same team who beat Melbourne a month or so ago - we need to remember that.

From a fan's point of view, it can seem like we're the best team in the world one week and the worst seven days later but that isn't the case. A few things change and your luck changes in a game.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/league/news/article.cfm?c_id=79&objectid=11494082
 

jonno

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 13, 2014
9,803
It's easy for a club to slip into lazy habits. But when you do talent doesn't count for nothing..
 

Inruin

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
May 19, 2012
10,720
Auckland
Is that lack of professionalism left over from Bluey's days? Rather have a team BBQ than do defensive training?
 
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jonno

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 13, 2014
9,803
Is that lack of professionalism left over from Bluey's days? Rather have a team BBQ than do defensive training?
Konrad misses those days...

Didn't he come up to fg during blueballs half season in charge?
 

Iafetas Kickstand Wang

1st Grade Fringe
Jun 21, 2012
2,098
Yes he did.

While Brian McClennan and Matt Elliott can certainly be held to account by fans for it, my questions sit with Wayne Scurrah and Dean Bell. IIRC, Bell was head of Football, and Scurrah obviously had overall responsibility for the organisation. Particularly for guys who had been there during Ivan Cleary's time, IMO they should have been managing the accountability of the whole club in terms of professionalism and owning the cultures and values of the club.
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,765
So got to speak to someone today about this. Says the teams culture has never been better.


This all came about after the post Matt Elliott era when players voiced their disappointment at ME playing favourites to underachievers like Dane Nielsen and Todd Lowrie...
would love to know if this is still true
 
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Lord Gnome of Howick MBE

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 30, 2012
7,790
Is that lack of professionalism left over from Bluey's days? Rather have a team BBQ than do defensive training?

They stopped that when Townsend was left in charge - he was too slow turning the sausages, dropped a plate of steaks and threw the ribs all over the floor (and then glared at everyone else like it was their fault.)
 

wallacenz

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
7,328
Regarding the Tomkins article. He says there was an unprofessional culture at the Warriors when he started.

If that was the case then were the senior players complicit in that lack of professionalism. If they weren't it would indicate they don't get the respect we believe they get, and maybe the young players don't look up to them. If they were then they are part of the problem themselves. It seems, reading that article, that leadership has been lacking at the Warriors.

We seem to read how much respect these senior guys have but do they really, maybe from the fans but maybe not from their own team.
 
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snake77

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 12, 2013
10,195
Auckland
Is that lack of professionalism left over from Bluey's days? Rather have a team BBQ than do defensive training?
A proper BBQ not the type Maloney refers to I hope.


The Tomkins article is interesting. It makes McGuire look like a high quality coach as he can come in and can instil discipline and it's still maintained after he's left. Makes Wigan sound like a quality club. The Warriors as an NRL club has a lot more resources than a Super League club, sure this doesn't always mean you have your shit together. But the majority of NRL clubs would be run better than a Super League club, unfortunately we aren't part of that majority.
 

kurgal

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 18, 2013
421
I raised my eyebrows when I read this article, not so much for what was said, but who was saying it.

Given what I (and no doubt many) have witnessed/heard of ST's off-field conduct...
 

Maraea

1st Grade Fringe
May 20, 2013
1,021
Melbourne
I have no idea where to put this but I am doing a 180. I've posted before about local players going overseas named players who've had success, our under 20s having success and our Kiwis team being successful too in recent years consistently. I know theres talent in NZ so do the Aussies, so do most people. So why dont we have an NRL premiereship yet?. The problem when it comes to our players has always been the Warriors franchise and I'm a bit peed off about some of the comments from the Warriors over the years trying to put blame back on our local organisations to cover their own ineptitude. If I myself have offended anyone involved in grass roots league, you tireless volunteering champions, I apologise. For a moment there I forgot my own roots.

The Warriors have been poorly managed in alot of areas across 20 odd years none more so in recent times than our development. Its a farce to say that they are a development club.

Our u20s and NSW teams going forward should be a priority. An area in which to recruit, train, weed out and then develop the talent that has the want to succeed and ability to develop. It can get a bit ruthless no messing around when it comes to cuttng those without potential, but its necessary to get the best players for the teams.

I would go so far as to wanting a Coach as good as Wayne Bennett (if not the man himself - dreams are free) to take charge of this important step toward a consistently performing, winning FG team. Can Doyle and Mcfadden do this for us currently? Not unless imho they have alot of money or luck or both; or unless they see how important prioritising the coaching and management of these two teams are. I remember when some idiot thouht it was okay to have a part timer coaching our development team - ffs.

I'm giving the team one more year, i am only back fr 2 anyway, to see how doyles management changes at the Warriors go before I cut them loose ad start cheerleading a second bloody franchise.
 

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