General Club Culture Part 3 - Cappys Reign

facefacts

It's amazing Johns isn't more popular around these parts with his get the attack right and the defense will work itself out policy...that same philosophy that has seen the Warriors be a consistent top four super club over the last 20 years :rolleyes:.

Defense, defense, defense, get the defense right and the attack becomes easy...the great coaches know this.
 
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snake77

snake77

Funny thing the NZ Herald are attributing that article to Andrew Johns. If that is a direct copy from the Telegraph the Herald must have it wrong.
LOL. I saw that earlier while reading the article on my phone. I was thinking I'm going to have to come back and quote myself with my rant about Matty going off on us again. Saved having to give a little apology as Andrew is the Johns I don't mind too much.

Defense, defense, defense, get the defense right and the attack becomes easy...the great Coaches know this.
Good thing he isn't a coach. Any coaching he has done is concentrated on the halves and guiding teams around the park.

Personally I think our better years have been when our defense is sorted and we know if we do turn the ball over the guys can hold out the opposition for a few sets. We can then play off the back of that with confidence the turnstiles won't open.
 
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Lord Gnome of Howick MBE

Lord Gnome of Howick MBE

Reminds me of the old joke;

Whats the differnce between America and a yogurt?

A yogurt can develop a culture.
 
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gREVUS

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
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I was watching a couple of old warriors - broncos games from back in the day. and the one thing that stood out to me was the intensity of the tackling. I think PlayTheBall said it earlier - that intensity has been missing for a long time now. Last night i saw glimpses but nothing like the sustained efforts that we used to see. Teams honestly used to fear playing the warriors as they never knew who would be left on the paddock by the end of the game. Nowadays it seems they cant wait to play them.
 
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snake77

snake77

I was watching a couple of old warriors - broncos games from back in the day. and the one thing that stood out to me was the intensity of the tackling. I think PlayTheBall said it earlier - that intensity has been missing for a long time now. Last night i saw glimpses but nothing like the sustained efforts that we used to see. Teams honestly used to fear playing the warriors as they never knew who would be left on the paddock by the end of the game. Nowadays it seems they cant wait to play them.
There was one year either under Anderson or Cleary's reign where there was a statistic that after playing the Warriors win or lose the next week that team would lose. That's the type of rep we had and it would be good to have; you come play the Warriors you get battered and worn out.
 
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bruce

bruce

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There was one year either under Anderson or Cleary's reign where there was a statistic that after playing the Warriors win or lose the next week that team would lose.
I remember that too. Mind you the Broncos will be pretty sore today.

However I recall during the times of that stat the team was still inconsistent. I remember one game at Newcastle, when that club was really strong, the Warriors belted them in the first half. I remember Paul Harragon walking off at halftime looking shell shocked. Newcastle won that match and I remember people saying then all they had to do was withstand the physical onslaught and wait for them to ease their concentration. These days they don't have to wait long for the concentration to ease.

I was watching the ESL today. The Warriors would be leading that comp hands down. They might let in a few tries but they would always score more and Konrad Hurrell would be a superstar.

It just shows the high standard of the NRL, as was warned by John Hart when they let Ivan Cleary go for Bluey.
 
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Inruin

Inruin

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I guess that means he didnt get the job?

Sam Tomkins left for "personal" reasons, TL is leaving for " personal" reasons, Le Chad left for " personal" reasons...... that person was Cappy...,,
I would suggest that it is more to do with others in the team. I often hear people talk about how do coaches and teams accommodate polynesian players in to the enviroment etc. I don't buy in to that myself. However, imagine being a player that is used to training, competing, playing to a certain standard and then coming over to the Warriors. While from the outside it appears the same as many clubs I get the feeling that the difference in professionalism, is perhaps quite different. In my opinion, some of the personal reasons are genuine, others are more along the lines of 'I want to be part of a club where ALL the players put in an are held accountable'.

For young guys wanting to play first grade and wanting to get that opportunity it is worth it in the short term. Maloney and Townsend for example. But once established they want out ASAP to go play for a real team, with real players and real professionals.
 
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jonno

jonno

I would suggest that it is more to do with others in the team. I often hear people talk about how do coaches and teams accommodate polynesian players in to the enviroment etc. I don't buy in to that myself. However, imagine being a player that is used to training, competing, playing to a certain standard and then coming over to the Warriors. While from the outside it appears the same as many clubs I get the feeling that the difference in professionalism, is perhaps quite different. In my opinion, some of the personal reasons are genuine, others are more along the lines of 'I want to be part of a club where ALL the players put in an are held accountable'.

For young guys wanting to play first grade and wanting to get that opportunity it is worth it in the short term. Maloney and Townsend for example. But once established they want out ASAP to go play for a real team, with real players and real professionals.
I don't think its work ethic. All the islanders I've worked with have been real hard working...

But the approach is certainly different.

For me it all comes down to mind over matter... Teams know they can wait out the initial onslaught and after 20 mins we'll run out of juice... Then we're easy pickings.

And Manu's errors aren't because he's lazy. It'd because he sees no value in upgrading those skills.

The physical effort is outstanding, but the long term, strategic planning, isnt up to scratch.

This is what I want JD to be teaching these guys.
 
Inruin

Inruin

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I don't think its work ethic. All the islanders I've worked with have been real hard working...

But the approach is certainly different.

For me it all comes down to mind over matter... Teams know they can wait out the initial onslaught and after 20 mins we'll run out of juice... Then we're easy pickings.

And Manu's errors aren't because he's lazy. It'd because he sees no value in upgrading those skills.

The physical effort is outstanding, but the long term, strategic planning, isnt up to scratch.

This is what I want JD to be teaching these guys.
Not refering to Polynesian players at all. i don't buy in to that line of thinking based on ethnicity. I do however buy in to differences in team culture. So if you come from say the Melbourne set up like Maloney did or the Cronulla set up like Townsend the way things are done and the level that is achieved during trainings, recovery sessions, professionalism in preperation, the will to go the distance etc could be and I would say is different to here. When you see a player like Townsend with limited ability and limited physical attributes come here and almost immediately labeled as one of the better trainers then you have to ask why are our 'athletes' not able to do that here. You can see it in any sport at almost any level. The ones that take shortcuts in practice end up taking short cuts in games. Their natural talent somewhat compensates but when you get to a certain level that ends up being not enough. I would also suggest that in Australia this is picked up and sorted early on. It's certainly not a race based thing because as we see polynesian players can and do perform well at other clubs, often ending up being some of the better performers. So logically it has to be more of a culture based rather than a race based argument
 
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Mr Bob

Mr Bob

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Not refering to Polynesian players at all. i don't buy in to that line of thinking based on ethnicity. I do however buy in to differences in team culture. So if you come from say the Melbourne set up like Maloney did or the Cronulla set up like Townsend the way things are done and the level that is achieved during trainings, recovery sessions, professionalism in preperation, the will to go the distance etc could be and I would say is different to here. When you see a player like Townsend with limited ability and limited physical attributes come here and almost immediately labeled as one of the better trainers then you have to ask why are our 'athletes' not able to do that here. You can see it in any sport at almost any level. The ones that take shortcuts in practice end up taking short cuts in games. Their natural talent somewhat compensates but when you get to a certain level that ends up being not enough. I would also suggest that in Australia this is picked up and sorted early on. It's certainly not a race based thing because as we see polynesian players can and do perform well at other clubs, often ending up being some of the better performers. So logically it has to be more of a culture based rather than a race based argument

100% agree.

But how and where do you break the cycle?.....

I think the majority agrees but no one knows how to change it - everyone just points to something else without owning up and suffering the consequences.

And thats what pisses me off with all these player interviews - if its not the coach - and the coach is saying all the right things - they you players should be ashamed of yourselves, yet you're going out in public to "support the coach"?????. That gets my blood boiling...if i was Cappy i would be so pissed at these players...
 
jonno

jonno

100% agree.

But how and where do you break the cycle?.....

I think the majority agrees but no one knows how to change it - everyone just points to something else without owning up and suffering the consequences.

And thats what pisses me off with all these player interviews - if its not the coach - and the coach is saying all the right things - they you players should be ashamed of yourselves, yet you're going out in public to "support the coach"?????. That gets my blood boiling...if i was Cappy i would be so pissed at these players...
Education is the only way to change it.

Teach the kids coming through the real lessons they'll need to make it in the NRL.

Or immersion into an Aussie club where they will learn naturally if they are interested enough.

Nothing else will do it imo.

League was invented by the west, in the west, for the west. Islanders who want to do well in the NRL have to learn this. Just like westerners who move to the islands have to learn the Island ways if they want to succeed there.

My apologies to the PC police.:finger:
 
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Mr Bob

Mr Bob

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Education is the only way to change it.

Teach the kids coming through the real lessons they'll need to make it in the NRL.

Or immersion into an Aussie club where they will learn naturally if they are interested enough.

Nothing else will do it imo.

League was invented by the west, in the west, for the west. Islanders who want to do well in the NRL have to learn this. Just like westerners who move to the islands have to learn the Island ways if they want to succeed there.

My apologies to the PC police.:finger:

I aint got another 20 years to wait mate.

I could be dead by then.

We need a quick fix.
 
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jonno

jonno

I aint got another 20 years to wait mate.

I could be dead by then.

We need a quick fix.
Hard core drills. And I'm not talking about sex toys. I'm talking about hours of repetition of the basics.

Michael Jordan wasn't all that flash at long range shooting when he first cracked the big time. So to fix that he did ball busting amounts of shooting practice until he was one of the best game winning shooters in the history of the NBA.

His talent was for dribbling and slam dunking. But he's the greatest because he mastered the stuff he didn't have talent for as well.

These fucken guys need to master the basics. Simple as that. They keep getting found out under pressure, cause they haven't done the hard yards, putting in overs at training. It's like they just want that first big contract and have zero ambition for anything else after.

Get some vision for the future you cu**s. Cause one day we'll all be dead, and maybe still be bridesmaids. And nobody want's that.
 
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AusWarriorsFan

I think the culture is 95% of the problem as would most aussies. The warriors dont finish games, they dont play for 80 minutes, they dont focus for 80 minutes and then comes the dropped ball which they dont realise does impact winning the NRL because it seems trivial, im talking mindfulness, intensity, what it means to win an NRL Prem, we just dont have that because we are not an Aussie team. Thats why im saying we need an Aussie coach who can instill what Hoffman was on about, didnt he say something like "a lot of the players think the are pro footballers, but dont act like it"?

There is no expectation in NZ, its just too easy to roll on up to training do the game and go back home and not have fans and the media in your face about your performance. Because they expect you to win in Aus, like kiwis Expect the All Blacks to win. Well when you have a team in Aus with as much talent as the warriors, they better deliver, its expected.

How do we transition to that culture Im not sure, but a coach and perhaps an australian consultant not Graham Henry is a better way to go, say Gus Gould (just a name off the top of my head). Someone who knows how successful clubs are run and can teach the players what is expected.

Its a job, they arent their to have fun, they are their to succeed, if that brings them personal pride and happyness that is different to having fun and mucking around. Its the same as any job, you dont go to the office to have fun, you go to succeed and why is it not fair of your boss to expect you to focus on succeeding, not having fun, when they are paying you $500k + ?
 
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AusWarriorsFan

I agree, they need to repetition the defense playbook, over and over until they are vomiting defense, and im not talking how to tackle. Do this for half a season and the points will score themselves. Its what Bennett and Bellamy do, its what we need to do. Defense and ball handling mindfulness, ie not dropping a ball placed on your hip or shoulder, something thats not perfect but a pro should swallow.
 
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jonno

jonno

I agree, they need to repetition the defense playbook, over and over until they are vomiting defense, and im not talking how to tackle. Do this for half a season and the points will score themselves. Its what Bennett and Bellamy do, its what we need to do. Defense and ball handling mindfulness, ie not dropping a ball placed on your hip or shoulder, something thats not perfect but a pro should swallow.
Hard, boring work.

Sounds like my job, but with one day a week having cheerleaders and flame pots at the depot...
 
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mrblonde

mrblonde

His talent was for dribbling and slam dunking. But he's the greatest because he mastered the stuff he didn't have talent for as well.

I love what this implies - that Jordan knew players would figure out how to deal with his dribbling and slam dunking, so he had to come up with something else. Obviously every player is going to be better at A rather than B, but you don't want the team to suffer because the opposition have got Johnson/whoever tied up so they can't run and their kicking game is just piss poor. Basically, some parts of a players game are going to be 90% good, no parts of that players game should be less than 65-70%.

If I'm Warriors coach I'm going to spend a hell of a lot of time on two things: Defence and Attacking so you get the ball back. Fix the Defence and we get a lot more energy to attack. The attack, yeah, Johnson's already doing good at forcing some dropouts according to the stats but my point is that forcing dropouts is a byproduct of being patient in attack. You attack in the first set aiming to force a dropout and - obviously if the opportunity presents itself you go for it but still knowing that the dropout needs to be acheived so knowing when to just tip it into the ingoal - same with the second set and eventually the defence are too stuffed to make another bloody tackle. Then the door suddenly opens and that is when the razzle dazzle stuff really kicks in. I accept giving the ball the opposition in their 10m but obviously then the defence really needs to stand up.

I guess what I'm saying is that when I'm coach the first 20-30 minutes are going to be the Warriors forcing the opposition to make lots of tackles and making their tackles on the opposition and not getting the reward for it points-wise. That comes later in the game.

Eric, you got my number, yeah? I'm free anytime you want to talk.
 
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jonno

jonno

I love what this implies - that Jordan knew players would figure out how to deal with his dribbling and slam dunking, so he had to come up with something else. Obviously every player is going to be better at A rather than B, but you don't want the team to suffer because the opposition have got Johnson/whoever tied up so they can't run and their kicking game is just piss poor. Basically, some parts of a players game are going to be 90% good, no parts of that players game should be less than 65-70%.

If I'm Warriors coach I'm going to spend a hell of a lot of time on two things: Defence and Attacking so you get the ball back. Fix the Defence and we get a lot more energy to attack. The attack, yeah, Johnson's already doing good at forcing some dropouts according to the stats but my point is that forcing dropouts is a byproduct of being patient in attack. You attack in the first set aiming to force a dropout and - obviously if the opportunity presents itself you go for it but still knowing that the dropout needs to be acheived so knowing when to just tip it into the ingoal - same with the second set and eventually the defence are too stuffed to make another bloody tackle. Then the door suddenly opens and that is when the razzle dazzle stuff really kicks in. I accept giving the ball the opposition in their 10m but obviously then the defence really needs to stand up.

I guess what I'm saying is that when I'm coach the first 20-30 minutes are going to be the Warriors forcing the opposition to make lots of tackles and making their tackles on the opposition and not getting the reward for it points-wise. That comes later in the game.

Eric, you got my number, yeah? I'm free anytime you want to talk.
My talent is pretty must just for dribbling. So not much hope for me really.

But I think you've outlined the blueprint for us playing great footy. Being fitter for defense and turning the ball over less equals finals footy next season. Anderson and Cleary both knew this about our club.

Just need the players to figure it out as well and they'll be way more fun to watch.
 
Mr Bob

Mr Bob

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If I'm Warriors coach I'm going to spend a hell of a lot of time on two things: Defence and Attacking so you get the ball back. Fix the Defence and we get a lot more energy to attack. The attack, yeah, Johnson's already doing good at forcing some dropouts according to the stats but my point is that forcing dropouts is a byproduct of being patient in attack. You attack in the first set aiming to force a dropout and - obviously if the opportunity presents itself you go for it but still knowing that the dropout needs to be acheived so knowing when to just tip it into the ingoal - same with the second set and eventually the defence are too stuffed to make another bloody tackle. Then the door suddenly opens and that is when the razzle dazzle stuff really kicks in. I accept giving the ball the opposition in their 10m but obviously then the defence really needs to stand up..

You'd spend a hell of a lot of time on defense and attack? as oppose to what else exactly?
 
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