General Christchurch Shooting

DO NOT POST VIDEO TO THE MASSACRE OR LINKS TO IT

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gREVUS

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Great post but I see examples of conflict and hate everywhere:

Europeans slowly losing their majority;
Maori and their loss of cultural identity;
Muslims and the terrorist from their extremists;
Woman/ feminists and ‘me too’ movement;
America and the wall;
Unions vs the government;
Left vs right;
Rich vs poor;
Greens vs capitalists;
Etc, etc, etc

On the day of the shooting kids were protesting about climate change and the organisers admitted some of the kids didn’t really understand why they were there.

Human nature, by its nature, is divisive. One day it’s a nutter assaulting a Green MP, the next this nutter is expressed his grievance 😔
its interesting about how you express what you see.

Europeans slowly losing their majority; Not Europeans succumbing to the fear mongering of the national and international press. What majority have they lost?

Maori and their loss of cultural identity; Maoris lost their cultural identity long ago, they are in the process of reclaiming and remaking it. I see these as birth pains not the pains of loss.

Muslims and the terrorist from their extremists; Muslims make up less than 1% of NZers, the number of those that are terrorists - as far as I can see the number is 0. Or are you talking about overseas, and therefore talking about media reports and do you include the war created by America in that or do you classify anyone fighting for their homeland as a terrorist?

Woman/ feminists and ‘me too’ movement; Women have had equality in the eyes of the Law for years, but a very few are standing up and saying they want these rights upheld. This is not a reason to hate, for either side. It is a reason to embrace those around us who we have let down and help them get a fair share.

America and the wall; This is another media beat up and wouldn't even be news in NZ if it weren't for Donald trump being the laughing idiot that he is. Accept it as humour and it all feels better. Its a bit like how Australia goes on about boat people, but in 2017 there were 37 000 people who applied for refuge status from within Australia, not one of them arrived by boat.

Union vs the government; The government is not against unions. If anything i would have thought the conflict should be between Unions and Corporates. And what I have seen since I have been around is far less than the old dock workers strikes that my parents and grandparents used to talk about.

look Ive gotten way to long winded, but the guts is this. Education on a subject often turns that subject into something manageable. Do extreme events happen, damn right they do but you dont have to treat them like they are the norm. The Media makes money on reporting bad shit. I find i limit my exposure to the media and i stop seeing threats everywhere. I realise that people are people and all they want to do is get on with getting on. When I see something that interests me I research it and find out more (i educate myself). Or i treat it as the sick joke it is and laugh or move on. You see hate because you are programmed to see hate. Give up the mainlining news and focused social media reporting and the programming goes away.

TL:DR read the paragraph above its all you really need.
 
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wizards rage

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its interesting about how you express what you see.

Europeans slowly losing their majority; Not Europeans succumbing to the fear mongering of the national and international press. What majority have they lost?

Maori and their loss of cultural identity; Maoris lost their cultural identity long ago, they are in the process of reclaiming and remaking it. I see these as birth pains not the pains of loss.

Muslims and the terrorist from their extremists; Muslims make up less than 1% of NZers, the number of those that are terrorists - as far as I can see the number is 0. Or are you talking about overseas, and therefore talking about media reports and do you include the war created by America in that or do you classify anyone fighting for their homeland as a terrorist?

Woman/ feminists and ‘me too’ movement; Women have had equality in the eyes of the Law for years, but a very few are standing up and saying they want these rights upheld. This is not a reason to hate, for either side. It is a reason to embrace those around us who we have let down and help them get a fair share.

America and the wall; This is another media beat up and wouldn't even be news in NZ if it weren't for Donald trump being the laughing idiot that he is. Accept it as humour and it all feels better. Its a bit like how Australia goes on about boat people, but in 2017 there were 37 000 people who applied for refuge status from within Australia, not one of them arrived by boat.

Union vs the government; The government is not against unions. If anything i would have thought the conflict should be between Unions and Corporates. And what I have seen since I have been around is far less than the old dock workers strikes that my parents and grandparents used to talk about.

look Ive gotten way to long winded, but the guts is this. Education on a subject often turns that subject into something manageable. Do extreme events happen, damn right they do but you dont have to treat them like they are the norm. The Media makes money on reporting bad shit. I find i limit my exposure to the media and i stop seeing threats everywhere. I realise that people are people and all they want to do is get on with getting on. When I see something that interests me I research it and find out more (i educate myself). Or i treat it as the sick joke it is and laugh or move on. You see hate because you are programmed to see hate. Give up the mainlining news and focused social media reporting and the programming goes away.

TL:DR read the paragraph above its all you really need.
Read this guys manifesto, he was very educated which made him even more dangerous.

To sum it up, people don’t like change and they like to be in the majority. There are a lot of agendas being pushed to make us it us and them. We’re not a very accepting world.

I believe it’s all adding to our horrific suicide rate and some of those suicidal will decide to go the way of this guy instead...

Have an inclusive, positive and rewarding society and guys like this will disappear
 
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tajhay

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Read this guys manifesto, he was very educated
I have read it. Curious as to which part of his incoherent ramblings you classify as "educated"? Is it the part about how he sees Donald Trump as the renewed white hope? Is it the part where he wrote himself “I had little interest in education during my schooling, barely achieving a passing grade."?

Very curious as to how you could call anything he wrote in there "educated".
 
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I have read it. Curious as to which part of his incoherent ramblings you classify as "educated"? Is it the part about how he sees Donald Trump as the renewed white hope? Is it the part where he wrote himself “I had little interest in education during my schooling, barely achieving a passing grade."?

Very curious as to how you could call anything he wrote in there "educated".
Educated is different to intelligence. He was educated in so much as he has divoted his life to his cause and travelled the world researching.

He came to twisted conclusions but the issue with education is people learn what supports their view.
 
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tajhay

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Educated is different to intelligence. He was educated in so much as he has divoted his life to his cause and travelled the world researching.

He came to twisted conclusions but the issue with education is people learn what supports their view.
Just because i read books on a skewed subject matter and watch tonnes of YouTube videos on that tangent makes me educated? Okay...

He was an utter nut job.
 
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Just because i read books on a skewed subject matter and watch tonnes of YouTube videos on that tangent makes me educated? Okay...

He was an utter nut job.
Agree he’s a nut job... you and I could both have the exact same education and still have polar opposite views on life. Education is only as good as the intelligence behind it... 👍🏻
 
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tajhay

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Agree he’s a nut job... you and I could both have the exact same education and still have polar opposite views on life. Education is only as good as the intelligence behind it... 👍🏻
You said judging by his manifest he seemed educated. Which part?
 
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You said judging by his manifest he seemed educated. Which part?
Don’t ask me, I educated myself on the moon landing and still believe it was faked 😉
 
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gREVUS

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Educated is different to intelligence. He was educated in so much as he has divoted his life to his cause and travelled the world researching.

He came to twisted conclusions but the issue with education is people learn what supports their view.
no see that is not education that is dogma. Thats what the church teaches, accept everything we say, never question. Education is the act of learning to question, and the seeking of proof.
 
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no see that is not education that is dogma. Thats what the church teaches, accept everything we say, never question. Education is the act of learning to question, and the seeking of proof.
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I work in education - “Education is the process of facilitating learning, or the acquisition of knowledge, skills, values, beliefs, and habits” sound to me like what he had done, by researching his philosophies... unfortunately his education strongly reinforced his beliefs and values.

Personally, I left Auckland several years ago because it changed with mass immigration. It came to a head when my kids primary school dropped several team sports because of the ‘changing demographics’ and resulting lack of participants/ parental helpers. I believe immigration policy is a legitimate concern, quite seperate from racism. Some like me move on and adapt and change their situation. I don’t blame the immigrants (I just hired a Muslim) but I do question our current immigration policy as much from a lack of infrastructure, planning and cultural fit rather than any racial issue.

My ability to adapt draws from my life experience, family morals and personal background. Someone with the exact same concerns could become filled with hate and blame... my view is it’s not just education it’s something in a persons makeup
 
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Yes, and while it doesn't go far enough I hear Jacinda saying that there will be more changes to come. I'm hoping that it is in the very near future and not years down the track after 3 or 4 focus groups or committees have made recommendations.

Why don't we have a gun registry? why don't we record who is buying ammunition and in what volumes? Why aren't we banning all semi automatic weapons?
When I got my gun licence in 2011 and purchased my gun I had to register it with the police, receive a home visit to check my secure storage, be police vetted etc. I was surprised at the stuff on the news about this not being a legal requirement until now.

My .22 is semi-automatic, which makes it great for taking down rabbits efficiently. It wouldn't be particularly effective for mass murder.
 
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I don’t blame the immigrants (I just hired a Muslim) but I do question our current immigration policy as much from a lack of infrastructure, planning and cultural fit rather than any racial issue.
Interesting retort. Imagine if immigration to NZ was based on those 3 criterias over the past few hundred years. Do you think you would have been born in NZ if that was used steadfastly to stop immigration to NZ? The sad reality is that people see a person of asian descent, and they are called asian. Indian descent, they are indian. Polynesian descent, a polynesian. White descent a kiwi. Irrespective of whether they were born there or not.

They are Us message should start from within.
 
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Interesting retort. Imagine if immigration to NZ was based on those 3 criterias over the past few hundred years. Do you think you would have been born in NZ if that was used steadfastly to stop immigration to NZ? The sad reality is that people see a person of asian descent, and they are called asian. Indian descent, they are indian. Polynesian descent, a polynesian. White descent a kiwi. Irrespective of whether they were born there or not.
When you invite someone to your house for dinner, you make sure the house is in order and the fridge is stocked and don’t invite more than you can cater to.

We open our door and the place is a mess and we have to cut our meal to provide enough for our guest. I don’t blame my guest, I blame the host for not being ready.

Our house pricing, homelessness, struggling schools, roads and hospitals all tell me we accepted too many to fast.

I don’t blame the guest, I blame ourselves. It’s not stopping, it’s doing it smarter
 
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Sup42

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Interesting to hear that there has been big blow back from the gun lobby over yesterdays changes.

Not surprising I know, they are like big tobacco, they have a template they follow in these situations when their self interest is threatened.

It just interests me purely from the pov of timing, that they have no fear of getting offside with broader public opinion. That brashness separates them from big tobacco. Both are evil. One is more aggressive than the other.

When Smoking is in societies cross hairs, big tobacco goes around it quietly and discretely.

I got a cousin who was a lawyer for I can't say which firm but its probably the first global conglomerate that pops into your head, if you know the name of any tobacco corporation. Poor cousin ended up having a crisis of conscience after living the corporate high life, and is now a Hari Krishna, I kid you not.

I learned a lot about how they roll when I tried to advocate for mental health patients that are incarcerated, being allowed to chose to smoke on hospital grounds. The case went to the high court.

At heart of the issue for me, was that if you imprison these people, albeit for sound reasons, you should not then be allowed to take advantage of those same reasons (the poor buggers didn't choose to be mad lets remember here) and enforce DHB guidelines on them for best health practice, like a DHB is a farkn non democratic autocracy that has the right of absolute control over ONE isolated hidden, vulnerable population, it is like they have said our land we occupy sits outside the laws in NZ that allow for people to choose their health practices.

Purely to bring this issue home to you. How would you react if you were admitted to hospital, your family brings in a feed of KFC to you, and purely because of the type of disease you are being treated for (a cardiac disease for example) the Nurse says to you and yours, you cant have the KFC, and if you lot argue I will call security and your family will be banned from visiting and you will be restrained over a drum stick.

The same fuckheads who came up with these kind of dictates are sitting back in boardrooms having hosted lunches with croissants, sugary coffees, and the whole gambit of processed food that corporate lunches provide, courtesy of the tax payer as they load their over weight bodies with carcinogenic- diabetic- cardio vascular disease promoting foods.

Cunts. Same cunts get awards for their innovations.

Cunts bullying homeless people with mental illness's rights to take five minutes pleasure from something that might kill them down the track, one of the only substances that levels out some of their worst symptoms.

Now consider that the vast majority of violence that staff face from patients in the first week is from smokers getting violent over the smoking ban. These are not figures that can be proved because DHBs cover them over, or frankly just turn the other way and tell their staff its part of your job, give them a lozenge from big pharma, the same lozenge they tell you to shove up your arse.

What do you think happens to a patient who hits out over a smoke ?

They get violence risk added to their files, they get major tranquillisers injected into them to calm them down, drugs which any health care worker would, given the choice, choose or recommend a cigarette to calm down in its stead.

Some of these drugs violent smokers get pumped with have a one in so many hundred risk of causing death. Some of the drugs used for calming are more addictive than heroine (Benzodiazepines).

So off the record I hit my cousin up in a private conversation over a cold beer which they are shouting about the smoking case before the high court recently, me being a pragmatic veteran of smoking thing in health care settings.

Cousin says "We would never advocate in cases like these because it looks bad, the conflict of interest is clear, we are not allowed to get involved or offer funding to lawyer that chose to try to fight for the patients rights to smoke".

So I weigh that up against the woman today on Radio NZ from NZ's gun lobby who was only too happy to front the cause and debate the issues.

The advantage of radio is you cannot see the person. So while I'm imagining this person as having a lower than academic background, they sound to me like an American Midwest baptist (not the accent, this girls tone is thick and slow like a middle New Zealanders, yah know, dumb sounding), they may well be something entirely different looking in the flesh, this woman sounds to me like trash of some sort.

Anyway, she tries to spin the logic, by saying their complaint is against the speed of the process and that their objections to the legislation are because they want to have a voice which ensures the changes work.

That's some pretty magical thinking gun girl, some pretty fucked up twisting of the situation to say you guys want delays to make sure it is done right.

See the thing is gun girl, the reason this person damaged near on one hundred people directly and hundreds of millions world wide, is coz people like you advocated for slow change, openly, wantonly, without the shame that keeps big tobacco in the shadows in simlar conflicts of interest.

In otherwords you bastards are terrifying and an enemy of national security.

*The use of tobbaco and firearms as a juxtiposition around the complexity of issues is intended. People can't shoot you with cigarettes, both subjects are the enemy of GVT reform, both have apologists backing them. Neither are essential for human life.
 
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Why don't we have a gun registry? why don't we record who is buying ammunition and in what volumes? Why aren't we banning all semi automatic weapons?
My mate with the blue suit told me all the records for firearms are done on paper, not computer. Bloody old fashioned and cheap. A dude who buys ammunition for the gun club doesn't need a lot, certainly as much as this guy had. The SIS,the Police or whoever in this day and age is watching should be able to monitor every time a gun owner has a shit. They should be on a watch list just for owning a gun. Apparently some of the reasons given by city slickers are questionable but if the Police up to now had turned them down there would have been an outcry. If we had a genuine arms policy this would not have happened, period. Rant over.
 
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That's a nice simplification aye.

You can't go to a bar and say "Can I have enough drink to kill fifty people if I crash my car, not that I am intending on killing fifty people, I am a recreational responsible drinker . . . but I want enough alcohol to make that possible, because I will act responsibly once I walk out that door so fucking drunk that I don’t know my own name",

Or you go to the bomb store "I'm a recreational user of explosives, I'm interested in product that would allow me to make IED's for Rabbits in cars".
 
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My mate with the blue suit told me all the records for firearms are done on paper, not computer. Bloody old fashioned and cheap. A dude who buys ammunition for the gun club doesn't need a lot, certainly as much as this guy had. The SIS,the Police or whoever in this day and age is watching should be able to monitor every time a gun owner has a shit. They should be on a watch list just for owning a gun. Apparently some of the reasons given by city slickers are questionable but if the Police up to now had turned them down there would have been an outcry. If we had a genuine arms policy this would not have happened, period. Rant over.
i dont know many places that dont have eftpos now. why can there not be a card basically the same as a countdown one card where you have to swipe it and the purchase is recorded automatically - for all ammunition or gun related items.
 
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The Cheap Seats

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We blame the bomber, because bombs are illegal and he shouldn’t have had one. He was wrong to seek and use one.

We blame the driver, because drink driving is illegal and he was wrong to drive while intoxicated.

You have then made a straw-man argument about blaming the gun. We blame the gunman, that’s why he is facing murder charges, instead of being considered a victim or innocent bystander. Because the gun was legal we need to make it illegal to protect people from it, like we do with bombs and drink driving.

The only pro gun arguments that I have heard this week are just as disingenuous as yours.
 
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