Wrighty
Where to from here
Back to the bargaining table and regard yesterdays announcement as null and void?
Back to the bargaining table and regard yesterdays announcement as null and void?
Wrighty
The union sounds annoying in there statement
They were presented the information on Wednesday but chose not to present it to their members because they wanted to ask annoying questions about how exactly management calculated their offer. How about management comfort levels and a proprietary financial model as the answer.
"I took cell C9 and I multiplied it by 1.25 then I divided by 365 days and then I added 3.6% for inflation then I cut and pasted that answer over here then I times by 32 and 582 000 then I added 61."
I mean really !!!!
They want to know an hour long walk through by an analyst through a financial spreadsheet which will be so detailed no one can follow it.
They were presented the information on Wednesday but chose not to present it to their members because they wanted to ask annoying questions about how exactly management calculated their offer. How about management comfort levels and a proprietary financial model as the answer.
"I took cell C9 and I multiplied it by 1.25 then I divided by 365 days and then I added 3.6% for inflation then I cut and pasted that answer over here then I times by 32 and 582 000 then I added 61."
I mean really !!!!
They want to know an hour long walk through by an analyst through a financial spreadsheet which will be so detailed no one can follow it.
Brother Faisal
That’s a very Vlandys thing to do. He has a history of this type of approach. Similar to the concussion crackdown
Canonball
idk, so hard to tell. Obviously, no-one commenting here is in the room - but if i were in the position of the union i'd be pissed too if the announcement is shown to be a cynical bargaining move. It sounds like both parties needed one more confirmation meeting, or a re-iteration of what was currently agreed, and that wasn't going to happen before christmas ... so... either tempers simmer down and we get to this point anyway, or not...
Wrighty
I like this comment you should post more. Good analysis.
Do you think it was a hard ball negotiation tactic or a clumsy misunderstanding. Faisal's post makes to sound like a hardball tactic.
wizards rage
They want to drag it out for another 2 months, to get as close to the start if the season as possible and create pressure to try to get more. Self interest.
It’s dragged on long enough. Other stake holders like the clubs desperately need to make big, important decisions ASAP - but the union wants to go on holiday…
Leadership needed to be shown and it was by the NRL. It sounds like a good deal for the players.
Wrighty
Wrighty
The nrl must have reached desperation stage to try publishing a false agreement to the media
I think even though I am bagging the players I think everyone in the negotiation including management a good two week break from each other
I personally am useless at negotiations and have been in a negotiation with a union over an exception to a collective bargaining agreement
I am all about consensus and win win agrreements but in formal negotiations you need win lose mentality and steel nosed. Professional negotiators
In the end we won my negotiation but only because I was represented by a professional procurement expert who did all the talking
Negotiations are highly competitive and hard work.
So even though I am making plenty of posts on this topic it is not an area I am skilled in.
Good luck to all concerned
mrblonde
Surely if the players walkout then, simply, it's no play/no pay?
Question: Are the NSW Cup and QLD Cup level players signed to the same union? Because if they're not, there's a point of attack from the club's POV: Okay, Mr NRL Player, you're on strike? Fine! Here's your replacement!"
It's all fun and games until people start losing money and that's when all the shit-talking and I'm-Such-A-Bad-Motherfucker-It's-Stenciled-On-My-Wallet posturing ends and the "Yeah, we wanted A - and still would like to get there, frankly - and B+'s off the table for now so, okay, fuck it, we'll take B." discussion begins.
And then the next round of discussions begin. Where each side ultimately accepts a New B, which, when you get into the details, equates to the B- they refused to accept a few years back.
Question: Are the NSW Cup and QLD Cup level players signed to the same union? Because if they're not, there's a point of attack from the club's POV: Okay, Mr NRL Player, you're on strike? Fine! Here's your replacement!"
It's all fun and games until people start losing money and that's when all the shit-talking and I'm-Such-A-Bad-Motherfucker-It's-Stenciled-On-My-Wallet posturing ends and the "Yeah, we wanted A - and still would like to get there, frankly - and B+'s off the table for now so, okay, fuck it, we'll take B." discussion begins.
And then the next round of discussions begin. Where each side ultimately accepts a New B, which, when you get into the details, equates to the B- they refused to accept a few years back.
Fonzie
My view is that the players union are overreaching
I don’t see a lockout, the players would lose that PR war
There will be some noise and then business as usual
Wrighty
Yes correct they will not be paid in the event of a lock out
They will all be setting aside savings for it now
Wrighty
They would especially lose that PR war given the events of the past 24 hours ie that the public is aware the nrl has made a very generous offer.
Maybe Vlandys really knew what he was doing with that release
Maybe it will force the players association to revisit their game plan of “ holding the line “ and force them now to make the best deal from their losing poker card hand they are holding.
Either way if I am the nrl I am not phoning or contacting the players association for at least 3 weeks to let this deliberate snub and it’s impact die down.
wizards rage
The game was on its knees during covid with talks of big changes to operate sustainably. I thought the game was still struggling with declining viewership and game attendance?
Yet the players are getting huge pay rises plus there is extra money for the woman’s game, etc.
Interesting how this positions the game long term.
Wrighty
My comment with no evidence is that this is msnagements best offer and secondly some of the clubs wanted a higher cap to acquire more players
Defence
I think that’s what vlandys is banking on- the offer looks pretty generous to me, u and 99% of general punters out there who haven’t had a pay rise in 5 years.
The balls back in the the players associations court and they’re starting to look a bit unreasonable.
If I was a player, I'd be pissed with the RLPA response.... aside from the absurd length and "poor us" tone, surely it would have been more effective (especially if they plan to enter a PR battle by threatening a lock-out) to release a short statement that says we're very disappointed, this goes against the good faith negotiations we thought we'd been having, and we'll be gathering the views of our members on this action by the NRL as we look to continue advancing negotiations on all elements of the CBA (noting that salary cap is only one element of it).
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mt.wellington
Warriors Orange Peeler
Contributor
It s actually a brilliant move by V'Landy designed to do just that. Appeal to us mere mortals who can only dream of such a payrise. The problem is their industry and any of ours are a completely different kettle of fish.
People saying the players are being greedy are fooling themselves. If any of us were in the exact same position we would want as much as the game would allow. Playing NRL is the final step in what has been some 15 years of training and competing to just get there let alone go through the rigours of competing week in week out in what is a brutal sport. Lets not forget that the vast majority will be lucky to see 50 games.
If I'm a player I'm going for broke. I am the product. The NRL is the business. It is me and my team mates athletic exploits that puts bums on seats and eyes on screens. Not V'Landy and his cronies. I understand his position though. His job is to pay the least. The unions job is to get the most. End of the day the players are the entertainers. That is what broadcasters pay big bucks to secure because the fans are willing to pay. The fans dont buy tickets, merchandise, subscriptions and memberships because of V'landy or Cameron George or Gus. They shell out their hard earned money to watch the best players in the world...
Defence
And those players were once little kids running around in the grass roots and without that there is no production line pumping out these star players.
Every extra million the players get is a million not being spent elsewhere.
Vlandys isn’t lining his own pockets- he’s trying to do what’s best for the future of the sport.
It’s a balancing act.
The other part of that too is that what you've said describes any other business - the labour or the people are the business. Accounting firm, building company, tech company, etc. etc. - if the employees of every organisation knew they could renegotiate collectively every 3-5 years (especially where you know the company has just made a lot of money), it would be great! Does that mean we are all going to get pay rises, no.
Fully appreciating the other side of the argument that NRL careers are short and the players are not guaranteed big paydays, etc., as Defence said, it is a balancing act. The players rightly should share in the spoils of the game when the going is good, but they shouldn't be pushing for money that is allocated for spending on developing the next generation (and I'm not saying they are - and I can't, because I'm not in the room). However, its a bit hard to swallow when top players say they want a huge pay-rise and the minimum salary should go up significantly too like there is an endless stream of cash. V'Landys and co. need to run the budget in an effective way so as to reward the players for their (huge) contribution to the competition, fund grassroots and run a successful competition with talented back-of-house folks.
And yes, unfortunately you need the latter - you can have the best product in the world (where I think RL is up there), but if you can't promote/market/sell it, you won't grow the competition. The back-of-house in Union is what is keeping the game alive - RL has a far better product, but terrible administration. Sorry, getting a bit ranty now..., but, in short, I agree with Defence (and some of your points).
Wrighty
I bring news and some speculation on what it might mean
Latest article here
www.foxsports.com.au
Based on this article and several others I speculate or infer that the NRLPA complaints and heated concerns about the 2023 Salary Cap announcement on Dec 23rd will not be listened to unless the players strike over it.
At this point the NRL has basically announced the salary cap. Or in other words the NRL has announced its own 2023 salary cap. Those will be the numbers.
Clubs can act with certainty in offering deals and acquisitions effective immediately UNLESS the Players association comes out and says it will strike over them and that they refuse to accept that salary cap. Which they have not done; They have just bitterly complained about various issues etc too close to Christmas holidays etc.
The end of the article reads that Vlandys; wants the discussion on the unresolved issues to continue to good faith. And my further uinderstanding is that if those negotiations do recommence that the Players association is implicitly accepting the stated 2023 salary cap.
These negotiations are in better shape than we thought it.
No, the salary cap announcement by the NRL was not jumping the gun and the numbers stated are effective immediately unless further correspondence backed by industrial action is taken.
Latest article here
What a joke’: Record NRL payday divides opinion as V’landys defends NRLW investment
‘What a joke’: Record NRL payday divides opinion as V’landys defends NRLW investment
www.foxsports.com.au
Based on this article and several others I speculate or infer that the NRLPA complaints and heated concerns about the 2023 Salary Cap announcement on Dec 23rd will not be listened to unless the players strike over it.
At this point the NRL has basically announced the salary cap. Or in other words the NRL has announced its own 2023 salary cap. Those will be the numbers.
Clubs can act with certainty in offering deals and acquisitions effective immediately UNLESS the Players association comes out and says it will strike over them and that they refuse to accept that salary cap. Which they have not done; They have just bitterly complained about various issues etc too close to Christmas holidays etc.
The end of the article reads that Vlandys; wants the discussion on the unresolved issues to continue to good faith. And my further uinderstanding is that if those negotiations do recommence that the Players association is implicitly accepting the stated 2023 salary cap.
These negotiations are in better shape than we thought it.
No, the salary cap announcement by the NRL was not jumping the gun and the numbers stated are effective immediately unless further correspondence backed by industrial action is taken.
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