General 2021 salary cap and recruitment - 4 key questions

mrblonde

mrblonde

I quite like Off the Bench’s suggestion of Shaun Johnson ,perhaps on a two year deal, he would also be good for the development of Paul Turner who I really rate, and maybe a better chance to ‘bring home’. I bet the Sharks would happily assist in making it happen.

If the Sharks would "happily assist in making it happen", that says to me that their attitude to Shaun Johnson is "no great loss." Without re-hashing the Pro-Shaun Johnson v Anti-Shaun Johnson stuff too much, do we really want to invest in a player his current club are - if I read your comment correctly, I accept your "happily assist" might mean a player swap, which is much more a "we'll miss ya Shaun Johnson, but we miss not having a good fullback more!" type situation - meh about keeping?

I don't think it's fair to move on PH and Chanel Harris-Tavita - unless they've had offers - as, frankly, we've not seen enough. KN's going to be hooker going forward - hopefully doing that on the field too! - as I still think we're stuck with Egan/Lawton in that department, even allowing for the massive probability that Roache will have a longer time to get himself ready for a return to rugby league that might not end well. So if Green goes, yes we need a senior half to help Chanel Harris-Tavita/AK.

Forwards - I think we need a hard, mean outta-my-way type. Our forward momentum seems to be "Oh, you got a hand on me! Ya got me, cobber!" passive. I mean a James Graham-type. Maybe we already have one or two of those, but have we seen signs of that?

Number one wish for 2021 is Iro leaving. He's had all these years to make a difference and what difference has he made - in whatever role he's had? Maybe he's promoted to ouside/beyond his ability - which I suspect Ackland may have been. Jones/Brown/Morgan - maybe one of those gets a new role in 2021 and we replace them with an outsider. Obviously, if Kearney is given the Thank You Mooks Now Sod Off talk - or he finally realises he freaking hates living away from his family and I know I couldn't do it - obviously his replacement needs to be 2021's Number One Biggest Signing.
 
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The Falcon

The Falcon

If the Sharks would "happily assist in making it happen", that says to me that their attitude to Shaun Johnson is "no great loss." Without re-hashing the Pro-Shaun Johnson v Anti-Shaun Johnson stuff too much, do we really want to invest in a player his current club are - if I read your comment correctly, I accept your "happily assist" might mean a player swap, which is much more a "we'll miss ya Shaun Johnson, but we miss not having a good fullback more!" type situation - meh about keeping?

I don't think it's fair to move on PH and Chanel Harris-Tavita - unless they've had offers - as, frankly, we've not seen enough. KN's going to be hooker going forward - hopefully doing that on the field too! - as I still think we're stuck with Egan/Lawton in that department, even allowing for the massive probability that Roache will have a longer time to get himself ready for a return to rugby league that might not end well. So if Green goes, yes we need a senior half to help Chanel Harris-Tavita/AK.

Forwards - I think we need a hard, mean outta-my-way type. Our forward momentum seems to be "Oh, you got a hand on me! Ya got me, cobber!" passive. I mean a James Graham-type. Maybe we already have one or two of those, but have we seen signs of that?

Number one wish for 2021 is Iro leaving. He's had all these years to make a difference and what difference has he made - in whatever role he's had? Maybe he's promoted to ouside/beyond his ability - which I suspect Ackland may have been. Jones/Brown/Morgan - maybe one of those gets a new role in 2021 and we replace them with an outsider. Obviously, if Kearney is given the Thank You Mooks Now Sod Off talk - or he finally realises he freaking hates living away from his family and I know I couldn't do it - obviously his replacement needs to be 2021's Number One Biggest Signing.
My point was coming more from a view that I don’t think Shaun Johnson really wanted to leave in the first place and he might have something to prove if he came back to Auckland. He hasn’t looked settled at Cronulla and maybe they would like to take that wage off their salary cap. No player swap for me, our young halves have promise but have a bit to learn too before they can confidently steer the team around the park.
 
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Wananga Kingi

Wananga Kingi

Just watched the the replay of the rnd 3 March against the raiders 2018, couldn’t help but think what a missed opportunity that year was. In terms of actually winning the comp. In the game against the raiders our game structure was outstanding, not only in this game but most of the year. We played with real intent, there were no one off hitups, everyone ran in pairs/supporting lines. Even off a tap hit up we’d do a plus for a block, to a prop to hit up, and early during sets we were implementing block plays a lot just to make yards and we made them quite easy, blocks also work well for us when we’re attacking close to opposing line especially with the spine we have and have had with Roger Tuivasa-Sheck Johnson etc. with our new game model Kearney implemented this year we done no block plays close to their line a lot of one off stuff and we scored 1 try( penalty try). I also liked the way Adam Blair was used as not only the aggressive defender but as a 3rd ball player as well. Also I don’t think Egan is the answer going forward at hooker I don’t think he suits the flow of our play style we’re best suited for. I know I might be dreaming here but we should try get Johnson back, I believe he’ll be willing to come back, sharks might be willing to free up some cap, plus they got Moylan, Townsend, Tracey who can fill in, if we get another solid forward and Johnson and go back to the game model we had 2018 I think we could win it. And a better Conditioning coach.

I know I make a lot of teams but it’s satisfying😅( team to win Comp)

Roger Tuivasa-Sheck
Maumalo
Hiku
Herbert ( Copley, Lafai?)
Fusitua
Harris-Tevita
Johnson
Paasi
Nikorima
Welch/Ese’ese
Murdoch-Masila
Harris
Tevaga/Blair(Player option)

Roache
Afoa/Taunoa-Brown
Ah-Mau
Katoa

Perham
Milne
Tu
Ratuva
Keighran?
Turner
ATG
Vuniyayawa
Makatoa
Ale
Papali’
Curran
Timm?
 
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Hardyman's Yugo

Hardyman's Yugo

We might be back to part time rugby next season if the money has dried up. I used to enjoy reading the programme notes to see what players did for a living. Publican, drayman, miner, were the default occupations of British players, strange to read about occupations such as sheep shearer when the Aussies were on tour
 
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wrighty

Guest
1. With Blake Green (and AK) off contract and probably gone, would you move Nikorima back into the halves with Chanel Harris-Tavita? If not, would you sign a new first-grade half or take a punt on a young guy like Perham or Turner?

2. With Herbert off contract at end 2020, would you re-sign him, go to market for a right centre/wing, or promote from within? Is Hayze Perham suited to wing?

3. With emergence of Katoa and the signing of Ben Murdoch-Masila for 2021, do we still need to sign a big money edge backrower?

4. With the signing of Ben Murdoch-Masila and the emergence of Jamayne Tounua-Brown, do we still need to sign a big money middle forward? And if you think we still need both a middle and an edge forward, which is the priority?

1) Our halves are FUBAR. That is an army term meaning fucked up beyond all repair.
Riddle me this...Chanel Harris-Tavita was a fine prospect last season especially in the closing 7-8 games. I said he was the finest halves prospect in the NRL.
This year he has been a liability. Whenever he touches the ball things are fucked. He was a crucial and decisive factor in us losing game one this season. Whatever option he takes, run vs pass vs kick you can guarantee it will be the most stupid of all three available options. Currently not only is the worst starting half in the NRL but i would him down at Hingano levels of ineptitude.
This is forming a pattern. Ice was touted as a future captain in his first year and has been much poorer since. How is it possible for a player to go backwards?

Nikorima needs to be our half at the moment to partner Shaun Johnson coming back at $1.1M per season.
I see no other solution. We could aim to secure a top quality half other than Shaun Johnson but we know none will come except him. Apologise to him. Give him a years supply of whatever porn mags he reads as an apology. Get it done.

The only thing Nikorima lacks to be a deputy is kicking...but fuck it.

The other option is we resign Green and no one wants that.

Chanel Harris-Tavita can be our back up half...and given how often both Shaun Johnson and Niko get injured he will get about ten games in.

Green can go to the super league or Brisbane if they still want him. It also frees up $650K we can put towards bringing back princess.

Perham looks like a poor mans Chanel Harris-Tavita to me. I don't fancy him. Turner has a good nose for the try line but havn't seen him distribute.

2) centres are the least of my worries

3) Back row - With Ben Murdoch-Masila we fulfill our back row requirements. We will have
Harris Katoa Curran Ice Ben Murdoch-Masila - Blair potentially
Don't need any one else

4) Props - Jamayne Tounua-Brown, AFoa, Paasi, LAM is good enough and don't need a monster unit any more. We need to solve the halves and go to market and save all our dollars for that acquisition. Keep Burr as our depth.

Following team will make top 8

1 Roger Tuivasa-Sheck
2 Ken
3 Hiku
4 Fusitua
5 Fijian cu** - teach him to tackle
6 Shaun Johnson
7 Niko
8 Paasi
9 Egan
10 Jamayne Tounua-Brown
11 Katoa
12 Harris
13 Ben Murdoch-Masila

14 Roach
15 LAM
16 Afoa
17 Curran

Depth Ice, Blair (if retained), Burr, Chanel Harris-Tavita, AK
 
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Blindside

Geez you have a short memory.
About all I remember from Shaun Johnson was just running across field and laying the ball off to someone in a worse position than him for 80% of the game.
Shaun Johnson is a step backwards. Plus he won't come.

Keighran has been good and could be the partner Chanel Harris-Tavita needs.
Then, being an inexperienced half behind the pack we have is going to test anyone.
 
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Noitall

Noitall

If the rest of the season gets off the ground I wouldn't mind seeing Quade cooper in the halves since he's made a bit of noise about wanting to play NRL.
 
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Dunedin warrior

The problem with buying an established half is that is costs around $600k minimum and you are in there for the longterm. Green and Nikorima are great examples of this. 600k on a forward should get you an elite one, unless you opt to sign Adam Blair. Given that we aren’t a recruiting club, our best option is to develop our own (Jones,Shaun Johnson) or get a young fringe 1st grader whose not getting a start elsewhere (Maloney or Thurston for the cowboys)
 
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brightman

brightman

Geez you have a short memory.
About all I remember from Shaun Johnson was just running across field and laying the ball off to someone in a worse position than him for 80% of the game.
Shaun Johnson is a step backwards. Plus he won't come.

Keighran has been good and could be the partner Chanel Harris-Tavita needs.
Then, being an inexperienced half behind the pack we have is going to test anyone.
@Blindsite we're a damn sight better with Shaun Johnson than without..
 
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Mr Brownstone

Geez you have a short memory.
About all I remember from Shaun Johnson was just running across field and laying the ball off to someone in a worse position than him for 80% of the game.
Shaun Johnson is a step backwards. Plus he won't come.

Keighran has been good and could be the partner Chanel Harris-Tavita needs.
Then, being an inexperienced half behind the pack we have is going to test anyone.
So Shaun Johnson only runs across field and Keighran is good... wow
 
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wrighty

Guest
I would pay up to $1.4M for Shaun Johnson and it would be worth it.

Shaun is 29 and turns 30 in Sept. Maybe just a two year contract.

Blake Green by contrast turns 34 in Sept of this year.

Shaun Johnson is a pup compared to him.

The only knock I have ever heard on Shaun Johnson is that he is not an elite player because he is inconsistent and doesn't deliver every game.

At least he delivered 50% of the time and 50% winning record is all you need for the playoffs.

You can argue we should aim for top 4 and that top 8 isn't good enough.
Well what you prefer? Resigning Green next year because that is the realistic alternative and finishing 15th or 16th or ONLY finishing 8th with Shaun Johnson running the cutter.

it was super exciting that year we were in the playoffs even if we did get bumped first round. I had a spring in my step all that week leading up the game. I remember tuesday night on here when they announced the 17 man team list there were 150 cu**s online on this web site. All buzzing. Warriors merchandise was selling like hot cakes. I got compliments on the street for wearing my warriors jersey. Rugby league was in the lime light even if only briefly.

And contrary to popular belief it is more Roger than Shaun Johnson that lost us that playoff game vs Panthers. Shaun Johnson came out firing and through his leadership we were winning 10 zip.

Then Maloney took over. He was the best five eight in the world at the time. He did a 40 20 attempt that roger should have stopped but Roger missed it and from the pursuant set of six they scored if my memory serves correct.

We were competitive with Shaun Johnson and we are uncompetiitive without him his inconsistency nothwithstanding.
 
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wizards rage

wizards rage

I would pay up to $1.4M for Shaun Johnson and it would be worth it.

Shaun is 29 and turns 30 in Sept. Maybe just a two year contract.

Blake Green by contrast turns 34 in Sept of this year.

Shaun Johnson is a pup compared to him.

The only knock I have ever heard on Shaun Johnson is that he is not an elite player because he is inconsistent and doesn't deliver every game.

At least he delivered 50% of the time and 50% winning record is all you need for the playoffs.

You can argue we should aim for top 4 and that top 8 isn't good enough.
Well what you prefer? Resigning Green next year because that is the realistic alternative and finishing 15th or 16th or ONLY finishing 8th with Shaun Johnson running the cutter.

it was super exciting that year we were in the playoffs even if we did get bumped first round. I had a spring in my step all that week leading up the game. I remember tuesday night on here when they announced the 17 man team list there were 150 cu**s online on this web site. All buzzing. Warriors merchandise was selling like hot cakes. I got compliments on the street for wearing my warriors jersey. Rugby league was in the lime light even if only briefly.

And contrary to popular belief it is more Roger than Shaun Johnson that lost us that playoff game vs Panthers. Shaun Johnson came out firing and through his leadership we were winning 10 zip.

Then Maloney took over. He was the best five eight in the world at the time. He did a 40 20 attempt that roger should have stopped but Roger missed it and from the pursuant set of six they scored if my memory serves correct.

We were competitive with Shaun Johnson and we are uncompetiitive without him his inconsistency nothwithstanding.
My biggest complaint with Shaun Johnson was you couldn’t structure a team around him as he was to individual. There was no game management to our sets as Shaun Johnson was playing ‘eyes up’

An average half where his team mates knew where they were supposed to be could, as a team, be as effective as Shaun Johnson jumping around the place.

Since his ankle break until 2018 I felt Shaun Johnson had lost his strengths and was a liability. However 2018 on I’ve felt he matured and focused on game management and set up as many tries around him as scoring tries himself. Shaun Johnson 2018 had a bright future.

The disappointing part was that I felt the warriors supported Shaun Johnson through his ankle injury and extended recovery and paid him elite money for a poor return for several years. The good will was never returned and it was always Shaun Johnson first...
 
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wrighty

Guest
My biggest complaint with Shaun Johnson was you couldn’t structure a team around him as he was to individual. There was no game management to our sets as Shaun Johnson was playing ‘eyes up’

An average half where his team mates knew where they were supposed to be could, as a team, be as effective as Shaun Johnson jumping around the place.

Since his ankle break until 2018 I felt Shaun Johnson had lost his strengths and was a liability. However 2018 on I’ve felt he matured and focused on game management and set up as many tries around him as scoring tries himself. Shaun Johnson 2018 had a bright future.

The disappointing part was that I felt the warriors supported Shaun Johnson through his ankle injury and extended recovery and paid him elite money for a poor return for several years. The good will was never returned and it was always Shaun Johnson first...

1) thank you for knowing I was being colourful with the 1.4 million comment rather than literal

2) there such a disparity in memories as to what happened it boggles my mind

According to 50 percent of the people on this message board Shaun Johnson demanded to leave our team with no provocation and we had no choice but to release him. Those posters swear black and blue that is what happened and you are an idiot if you think otherwise.

Theory b is that Cameron George was being a blow hard and made some flippant comments he didn’t really mean about how Shaun Johnson like any player could look around with his agent at the end of the following year. And that Shaun Johnson misinterpreted and over reacted.

Theory c that I subscribe to based on my memory is that at that stage we had Brian Smith. And Brian was all about optimising the club and making sure the warriors were professional and not over paying for any one athlete.

Whether it was directly his influence or not theory c is that George ceo comments were deliberate and not careless. The comments were serious and they really wanted Shaun Johnson to test the market and then they were hoping to crush him into accepting 800k instead of one million. All in the name of saving money.
Shaun Johnson did test the market as instructed and found Cronulla because the warriors didn’t bank on Val Holmes leaving.

I don’t know where I am going with all of this other than to say us warriors fans will always be divided both on Shaun Johnson and even the story of why he left.
 
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wizards rage

wizards rage

1) thank you for knowing I was being colourful with the 1.4 million comment rather than literal

2) there such a disparity in memories as to what happened it boggles my mind

According to 50 percent of the people on this message board Shaun Johnson demanded to leave our team with no provocation and we had no choice but to release him. Those posters swear black and blue that is what happened and you are an idiot if you think otherwise.

Theory b is that Cameron George was being a blow hard and made some flippant comments he didn’t really mean about how Shaun Johnson like any player could look around with his agent at the end of the following year. And that Shaun Johnson misinterpreted and over reacted.

Theory c that I subscribe to based on my memory is that at that stage we had Brian Smith. And Brian was all about optimising the club and making sure the warriors were professional and not over paying for any one athlete.

Whether it was directly his influence or not theory c is that George ceo comments were deliberate and not careless. The comments were serious and they really wanted Shaun Johnson to test the market and then they were hoping to crush him into accepting 800k instead of one million. All in the name of saving money.
Shaun Johnson did test the market as instructed and found Cronulla because the warriors didn’t bank on Val Holmes leaving.

I don’t know where I am going with all of this other than to say us warriors fans will always be divided both on Shaun Johnson and even the story of why he left.
Probably more complex and a mixture of all the above. A lot probably went down over the years and the CEO comment probably brought the underlining feelings of both camps to the surface.

Shaun Johnson probably thought the opportunity cost he was forgoing by staying at the Warriors wasn’t appreciated by the club and was probably correct.

The club probably though they needed more for his salary and were also correct.

All relationships are built on mutual respect and for whatever reason both parties thought the other wasn’t providing it. Ultimately it was a failure of communication by both parties.
 
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wrighty

Guest
Probably more complex and a mixture of all the above. A lot probably went down over the years and the CEO comment probably brought the underlining feelings of both camps to the surface.

Shaun Johnson probably thought the opportunity cost he was forgoing by staying at the Warriors wasn’t appreciated by the club and was probably correct.

The club probably though they needed more for his salary and were also correct.

All relationships are built on mutual respect and for whatever reason both parties thought the other wasn’t providing it. Ultimately it was a failure of communication by both parties.
Wizard's rage you come across as extremely well educated with strong critical analysis skills. You are probably one of my top 5 posters to read on this message board.
What is your bio if you don't mind me asking?
University degree? if so in what? what do you do for a living?
Do you live in christchuch? I associate the wizard reference to the wizard of christchurch for some reason.

Inquiring minds want to know. Only share what you feel comfortable with...
 
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Noitall

Noitall

I would pay up to $1.4M for Shaun Johnson and it would be worth it.

Shaun is 29 and turns 30 in Sept. Maybe just a two year contract.

Blake Green by contrast turns 34 in Sept of this year.

Shaun Johnson is a pup compared to him.

The only knock I have ever heard on Shaun Johnson is that he is not an elite player because he is inconsistent and doesn't deliver every game.

At least he delivered 50% of the time and 50% winning record is all you need for the playoffs.

You can argue we should aim for top 4 and that top 8 isn't good enough.
Well what you prefer? Resigning Green next year because that is the realistic alternative and finishing 15th or 16th or ONLY finishing 8th with Shaun Johnson running the cutter.

it was super exciting that year we were in the playoffs even if we did get bumped first round. I had a spring in my step all that week leading up the game. I remember tuesday night on here when they announced the 17 man team list there were 150 cu**s online on this web site. All buzzing. Warriors merchandise was selling like hot cakes. I got compliments on the street for wearing my warriors jersey. Rugby league was in the lime light even if only briefly.

And contrary to popular belief it is more Roger than Shaun Johnson that lost us that playoff game vs Panthers. Shaun Johnson came out firing and through his leadership we were winning 10 zip.

Then Maloney took over. He was the best five eight in the world at the time. He did a 40 20 attempt that roger should have stopped but Roger missed it and from the pursuant set of six they scored if my memory serves correct.

We were competitive with Shaun Johnson and we are uncompetiitive without him his inconsistency nothwithstanding.
If he came back hypothetically who out our guys would you pair him with in the halves with green off contract. I reckon they recruited the perfect foil in green for Shaun Johnson and 2018 was a promising first season together. Keighran might be an option.
 
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wrighty

Guest
I agree with you about Chanel Harris-Tavita - he’d probably be good in another team.

It breaks my heart about Chanel Harris-Tavita. There were a couple of epic games last year, the Storm game was one of them where we had no hope in winning. Blake Green was out injured and we had nobody to put in the halves but this 19 year old kid and he needed to lead us. Now when the all blacks are in a similar situation due to injuries some other super star pivot takes on the lion share of the responsibilities. But the warriors didn't really have a Cameron Smith at 9 to step up and take over so we had to go to Chanel Harris-Tavita.
Out we ran on to AAMI field with 100 to one odds on us winning.
And then magic happened.
The 20 year old Chanel Harris-Tavita paired with a second rower Harris as the other half started to make in roads.

Playing like a 34 year old veteran rather than a 20 year old rookie he actually began to steer us around the park and put us in good positions.

Then the next piece of magic happened.

The players started to trust him and realise he was leading him. The team players at dummy half and lock and centres just started to do their job and nothing more because Chanel Harris-Tavita was putting them on the front foot.

Soon more magic happened.

We scored a try and the players began to look at the kid as their leader and somehow he knew he was. He looked like he was born to lead. Like a young chieftan who has been born by lineage of a long line of forefathers to lead. He was his right to lead this team by birth and it was natural for him to lead.

So on we went. His kicks had pin point precision and he began to completely out play Melbourne's top half Munster.

Soon it was 5 minutes to go and we were in a position to win. It had been my favourite NRL game of all time. The ebbs and flows and the drama and throughout it all our 20 year old chieftan in the making running cutter.

Of course in the end we were robbed with a bad call. And of course the NRL apologised a few days later.

For me when won that match. Fair and Square. I remember it well.

After a few similar performances I said i wouldn't trade Chanel Harris-Tavita for Dylan Brown or anyone.

This year I can't fathom it. It is like they spent all off season taking away his confidence and not actually running any footage or teaching him strategies or discussing game scenarios with him.

It is like they spent all summer doing weights then playing unstructured games of touch rugby with no purpose to them.

He is not the same player this year. I have never seen any rookie in any sport before fundamentally be worse in his second year. Chanel Harris-Tavita looks like he would be a terrible club standard player right now. If I were an auckland premier grade league team there is no way I would take him for my side. He looks like about 2nd or 3rd grade level in a minor city like Invercargill rather than a major league city like Wellington or Auckland.

Definitely well below ISP level.
 
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wrighty

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If he came back hypothetically who out our guys would you pair him with in the halves with green off contract. I reckon they recruited the perfect foil in green for Shaun Johnson and 2018 was a promising first season together. Keighran might be an option.
I guess it is hard to read how good AK is these days since we saw him last. Last time I saw him in ISP he was furious with his team mates as they kept dropping the pill if one of his passes put someone into space.

I would go Nikorima as he seems content to play second fiddle.

If they actually com back later this season would be worth giving AK a run to see if he has progressed as a half option.
 
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Tragic

Tragic

Wizard's rage you come across as extremely well educated with strong critical analysis skills. You are probably one of my top 5 posters to read on this message board.
What is your bio if you don't mind me asking?
University degree? if so in what? what do you do for a living?
Do you live in christchuch? I associate the wizard reference to the wizard of christchurch for some reason.

Inquiring minds want to know. Only share what you feel comfortable with...
Yeah c'mon wizards rage. We wanna know if you like pina coladas and getting caught in the rain?
 
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