Internationals 2021 Rugby League World Cup

Brother Faisal

Brother Faisal

Yeah I think it no longer operates as a trial for Australia anymore as origin is played every year while the kangaroos have played one year out of the last 4 so what are your trialling for lol.

It’s time for the product to move on. Internationals are shifting that culture with the success of the islands. It’s given a nice counter to origin. The other thing is your isolating a pool of elite talent that doesn’t play in it. It’s no longer the best players in the world because some of the best players are qld or nsw. They can keep playing it but the success of toa samoa will play its part.
 
bruce

bruce

Contributor
While a lot of the recent posts on this thread are more about International / SOO eligibility than the RLWC2021 (sorry moderators!), I'm going to throw my two (or ten) cents in on the former as I'm not aware of a separate thread for this.

I'm in the "Porque no los dos?" camp in terms of eligibility - there is no reason why RL can't have both a strong SOO series and a stronger international game. In my view, the issue currently lies in the fact that the ARL treats SOO as if it is still 1980. The world has changed significantly since then - the global economy and increased movement of people means that a last number of people have ties to more than one country and/or culture. However, the eligibility rules do not recognise this.
The current rules (or certainly those prior to allowing Tier 2 nation aligned players to play) suggest that SOO is still seen as a trial for the Australian team - which I don't think is the case any longer. Selection for NSW and QLD should be similar to that for Indigenous and Māori sides, in that International team alignment is irrelevant - the criteria ought to be solely based on where you first played [senior] rugby league (i.e., your "origin"). The different to Indigenous / Māori selection being that nobody should be able to play for both NSW and QLD given the eligibility criteria being based on "origin" rather than heritage/culture. In this vein, I'd have no concerns seeing a player with cultural ties to both playing for the Māori side one year and then the Indigenous side the next (e.g., Thurston) if they chose to do so.
I have the same view on International selection - if you have ties to two countries (I haven't looked at the rules, but that tie should definitely be a better tie than Nathan Fien initially had, haha), then you should be able to play for either and NSW/QLD or Maori/Indigenous selection should not impact that (and vice versa). You should also be able to play for both - but not in the same year, and IRL needs to be very clear on the rules about "flip-flopping" (i.e., I don't think people want to see a player play for (for example) Australia every second year and NZ every other year). For example, a player might be allowed one International team alignment change in a three year period - e.g., next year Nanai could go and play for Samoa, but would then be ineligible for Australia (or the Kiwis) for 3 years.
The key, in my view, is to get as many quality games in a calendar year as it is safe to do so - this means NRL/Super League, representative fixtures based on origin and/or culture (e.g., SOO, City v Country, Māori/Indigenous) and international games. The more quality games we have that people either enjoy watching or have a connection to, the more people will invest time, energy and (hopefully) money into the game.

P.S., I disagree with the view that Origin is stale - I would have bought that mid-way through the QLD dynasty. But, by way of a one-game example, tell me Game III this year wasn't a great advertisement for the game (head clashes aside :()...
Can you remember how hard Queensland had to fight for SOO and how hard NSW fought to not have it?
 

ndp26

Can you remember how hard Queensland had to fight for SOO and how hard NSW fought to not have it?
Negative... before my time, sorry Bruce!
I could only imagine though! How QLD felt in the 70s/80s about NSW seems quite similar to how NZ/Samoa/Tonga/etc feel about Australia now... maybe that is why Mal seems more interested in the international game than others do (i.e., he remembers how the wrath of "head office" felt)?
 
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Brother Faisal

Brother Faisal

I’ve been quite impressed by Fiji and PNG. I respect Tonga and Samoa but they were developed in aus mainly and New Zealand. I feel as though the Fijians and png are more directly developed through their countries own systems. For example I can’t think of too many png players who are dual eligible with origin etc. similar to Fiji I can only think of koroisau who plays origin. That’s a credit to their countries and systems. Would love to see png at some stage make the semis but I feel both teams need consistent tests against nz and aus and regular test matches with Samoa and Tonga. I think Fiji’s potential is huge. Would love to see them win a World Cup 9s as well at some stage.
 
playdaball

playdaball

Heritage Member
I’m not sure if this has been mentioned previously but from an international rugby perspective, which two teams do you believe were the most important to make the final?
This would cover publicity, coverage, attracting new players , attractive football etc.

Some personal thoughts;
Australia- The biggest RL audience and with a population of 25m , the most important market in saying that does this tournament mean much to Australia?
NZ - From an international perspective, Nz does have a fairly small population, but NZ’ers would have jumped on the bandwagon , meaning interest in RL. This would have been important given no Warriors in Nz Over the past 3 years.

England - England in the final would have resulted in a lot of interest in a country still hoping for international sporting success. The crowd and TV interest , via the BBC, would have been high too. The English RL could have used this final to attract further players , supporters and sponsors to their local game. The UK has a population of c 55m , over 10x that of NZ.

Samoa - Their inclusion in the final provided a David & Goliath contest and a real fairy tail possibility. With passionate fans spread across the Pacific, NZ, Australia, USA and other countries together with high profile supporters such as The Rock , publicity was all positive.
Despite the fact that Samoans are physically built for our game , they still have a very small population and won’t really attract sponsorship.
The same would also apply to the likes of Tonga, Fiiji , PNG and to a lesser extent, The Cooks.

France - the next RLWC will be held in France and like England they have a big population and potentially a sleeping giant .

I don’t think the other teams would have generated too much publicity eg Greece, Italy, Wales Ireland, Lebanon etc.

Based on the above the best 2 teams in my opinion would have been:
England
Aust
Samoa
Tonga, Fiji, PNG
Nz

No wonder the draw was rigged for an England vs Aussie final.
 
Worried2Death

Worried2Death

I’m not sure if this has been mentioned previously but from an international rugby perspective, which two teams do you believe were the most important to make the final?
This would cover publicity, coverage, attracting new players , attractive football etc.

Some personal thoughts;
Australia- The biggest RL audience and with a population of 25m , the most important market in saying that does this tournament mean much to Australia?
NZ - From an international perspective, Nz does have a fairly small population, but NZ’ers would have jumped on the bandwagon , meaning interest in RL. This would have been important given no Warriors in Nz Over the past 3 years.

England - England in the final would have resulted in a lot of interest in a country still hoping for international sporting success. The crowd and TV interest , via the BBC, would have been high too. The English RL could have used this final to attract further players , supporters and sponsors to their local game. The UK has a population of c 55m , over 10x that of NZ.

Samoa - Their inclusion in the final provided a David & Goliath contest and a real fairy tail possibility. With passionate fans spread across the Pacific, NZ, Australia, USA and other countries together with high profile supporters such as The Rock , publicity was all positive.
Despite the fact that Samoans are physically built for our game , they still have a very small population and won’t really attract sponsorship.
The same would also apply to the likes of Tonga, Fiiji , PNG and to a lesser extent, The Cooks.

France - the next RLWC will be held in France and like England they have a big population and potentially a sleeping giant .

I don’t think the other teams would have generated too much publicity eg Greece, Italy, Wales Ireland, Lebanon etc.

Based on the above the best 2 teams in my opinion would have been:
England
Aust
Samoa
Tonga, Fiji, PNG
Nz

No wonder the draw was rigged for an England vs Aussie final.
So many intangibles but I'd go 1. England 2.Samoa 3. NZ 4. France. I don't think the international game has much impact on the Aussie domestic market in terms of expanding the fanbase or generating new interest.
 

Mr Brownstone

I’m not sure if this has been mentioned previously but from an international rugby perspective, which two teams do you believe were the most important to make the final?
This would cover publicity, coverage, attracting new players , attractive football etc.

Some personal thoughts;
Australia- The biggest RL audience and with a population of 25m , the most important market in saying that does this tournament mean much to Australia?
NZ - From an international perspective, Nz does have a fairly small population, but NZ’ers would have jumped on the bandwagon , meaning interest in RL. This would have been important given no Warriors in Nz Over the past 3 years.

England - England in the final would have resulted in a lot of interest in a country still hoping for international sporting success. The crowd and TV interest , via the BBC, would have been high too. The English RL could have used this final to attract further players , supporters and sponsors to their local game. The UK has a population of c 55m , over 10x that of NZ.

Samoa - Their inclusion in the final provided a David & Goliath contest and a real fairy tail possibility. With passionate fans spread across the Pacific, NZ, Australia, USA and other countries together with high profile supporters such as The Rock , publicity was all positive.
Despite the fact that Samoans are physically built for our game , they still have a very small population and won’t really attract sponsorship.
The same would also apply to the likes of Tonga, Fiiji , PNG and to a lesser extent, The Cooks.

France - the next RLWC will be held in France and like England they have a big population and potentially a sleeping giant .

I don’t think the other teams would have generated too much publicity eg Greece, Italy, Wales Ireland, Lebanon etc.

Based on the above the best 2 teams in my opinion would have been:
England
Aust
Samoa
Tonga, Fiji, PNG
Nz

No wonder the draw was rigged for an England vs Aussie final.
Rather than being rigged, wasn’t the draw based on the rankings, with NZ 1st and Aussie 4th having lost to Tonga & then not playing again following Covid? Disappointing not to give an opportunity for the two best teams to make the final, however it did make things very interesting for the host nation & the pacific teams.
 
Brother Faisal

Brother Faisal

I’m not sure if this has been mentioned previously but from an international rugby perspective, which two teams do you believe were the most important to make the final?
This would cover publicity, coverage, attracting new players , attractive football etc.

Some personal thoughts;
Australia- The biggest RL audience and with a population of 25m , the most important market in saying that does this tournament mean much to Australia?
NZ - From an international perspective, Nz does have a fairly small population, but NZ’ers would have jumped on the bandwagon , meaning interest in RL. This would have been important given no Warriors in Nz Over the past 3 years.

England - England in the final would have resulted in a lot of interest in a country still hoping for international sporting success. The crowd and TV interest , via the BBC, would have been high too. The English RL could have used this final to attract further players , supporters and sponsors to their local game. The UK has a population of c 55m , over 10x that of NZ.

Samoa - Their inclusion in the final provided a David & Goliath contest and a real fairy tail possibility. With passionate fans spread across the Pacific, NZ, Australia, USA and other countries together with high profile supporters such as The Rock , publicity was all positive.
Despite the fact that Samoans are physically built for our game , they still have a very small population and won’t really attract sponsorship.
The same would also apply to the likes of Tonga, Fiiji , PNG and to a lesser extent, The Cooks.

France - the next RLWC will be held in France and like England they have a big population and potentially a sleeping giant .

I don’t think the other teams would have generated too much publicity eg Greece, Italy, Wales Ireland, Lebanon etc.

Based on the above the best 2 teams in my opinion would have been:
England
Aust
Samoa
Tonga, Fiji, PNG
Nz

No wonder the draw was rigged for an England vs Aussie final.
A png final appearance at some stage would send png into a frenzie. I think with Samoa and Tonga with such a spread diaspora globally has made a bigger impact but a png final would deadset be insane to witness leaving in png I could imagine.

As much as I want Tonga and Samoa to be successful I want Fiji and png to really grow and develop. Would love a pacific 6 nations at some stage
 
Ref

Ref

The best thing to stop SOO being the so called pinnacle of the game and to overshadow test matches is to make it eligible for players who only want to play for Australia.
I mean it is an Australian internal competition after all between true blue NSW and Queenslanders.
So if you play SOO you are ruled out of representing another nation.
And if you represent another nation you can't play SOO.
Furthermore if you pay the players bugger all then there is no doing it for the money.

Australia has that much depth that it will still be quality football.
 
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bruce

bruce

Contributor
When I was a kid we used to have a three cornered county series, Cumbria, Lancashire, Yorkshire. Used to enjoy them tbh.

Cumbria had some decent teams, beaten both Aussies and Kiwis before.
If I recall they were from the club teams though, is that correct. So that once somebody descent had moved on to Headlingly or Wigan they played for Lancs or Yorks. Got a bit one sided.
 
bruce

bruce

Contributor
Negative... before my time, sorry Bruce!
I could only imagine though! How QLD felt in the 70s/80s about NSW seems quite similar to how NZ/Samoa/Tonga/etc feel about Australia now... maybe that is why Mal seems more interested in the international game than others do (i.e., he remembers how the wrath of "head office" felt)?
back last century when Sydney was the centre of the professional game they always had an annual NSW v Queensland game. However it was from players who were playing in NSW and Queensland, not like SOO.

So it was heavily stacked in favour of NSW, because the most of the best Queenslanders were playing in Sydney.

That doesn't mean Queensland were completely outclassed because two examples were John Lang, the Kangaroo hooker and Wayne Bennett were two internationals who made it from the Brisbane comp.

The Queenslanders were screaming about it for years until Tv suggested SOO, and even then the NSWRL were dead against it.

A problem with the Pacific Islands is that they are usually Kiwis or Aussies anyway, but as it is a bloody big money spinner it needs to be looked at.
 
Hardyman's Yugo

Hardyman's Yugo

If I recall they were from the club teams though, is that correct. So that once somebody descent had moved on to Headlingly or Wigan they played for Lancs or Yorks. Got a bit one sided.
No. County of birth. They used to get played midweek though, nowadays you’d have to make way for it at weekends.
 
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Tragic

Tragic

Contributor
Anyone know where to get a Toa Samoa Jersey? Son is jumping on the bandwagon embracing his Samoan roots now that they are winners; last World Cup he was Tongan. He loves a winner. Found a couple on trademe but look dodgy.
 
mt.wellington

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Contributor
Anyone know where to get a Toa Samoa Jersey? Son is jumping on the bandwagon embracing his Samoan roots now that they are winners; last World Cup he was Tongan. He loves a winner. Found a couple on trademe but look dodgy.
They have completely sold out everywhere. Ive seen several complaints on RL collector groups of the official RLWC site issuing refunds on cancelled orders they couldn't fulfill. Best to just get him a shirt from the local market I reckon for now...
 

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