General 2017 Warriors Preseason Thread

[Diesel]

Good insight #robbiemears thabks for that.

I'm willing to take a 7-8 place this season to sort this shit out

 

[Raurimu Massive]

Was he talking about this season? If he is that sounds really bad.

Nah mate, haven't heard anything from this year. This is from the past 2-3 seasons.

 

[Gizzyfan]

That's a relief, I would have been surprised if this had been the case with Kearney.

I am hoping SK is training that sense of entitlement out of this team.

Two truths are that they are paid to train, and you play how you train.

 

[eudebrito]

I'm willing to take a 7-8 place this season to sort this shit out

Irony is - that would count as a great improvement and no reason to change long term under achievers!

 

[Weno]

Be hoping to hear the name Patrick Sipley being talked about as a round one contender after this game.
Erin Clarke to put some pressure on Ata and Mason.
Is Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad injured? no 9s or first up trial.

 

[brightman]

However, the reality is that the aspiration of the senior long-term players (who are the constant throughout all the change and inconsistent performance) to influence the culture and lead is approximately zero. Apparently, they are good guys and have talent but they don't want to take responsibility.

In the absence of a coach whom is equally feared and respected the vacuum of power has no doubt let these poor attitudes flourish and influence an unwanted culture from within.
Doyle alluded to it last season and tried to turn it around the right way using the tools at his disposal, but Cappy was very limited and lost further ground as a result.
Hurrell wasn't the cancer but a symptom and was used unsuccessfully as an example.
Now we have players such as Lillyman who don't offer what the club actually require (as you've described) but enough to satisfy their aspirations (contact, origin) without mentoring/grooming their replacement as Price and Wiki did with Packer and Matulino, at the behest of the coach. And their it is again, the coach, without the right one and with continual change you are right, the culture of the playing group is flawed but rest assured as it is plain to see SK is already implementing change and heading in the right direction.

 

[diehard]

Youngsters bid to prop up Warriors
Fri 10 Feb, 2017, 7:30am
By Corey Rosser‌‌, New Zealand Correspondent , NRL.com

Sam Lisone says the battle for the prop position at the Warriors is heating up. Credit: Grant Trouville. Copyright: NRL Photos.
The group competing for the vacant front row spot at the New Zealand Warriors for Round 1 has expanded following the Downer NRL Auckland Nines according to club legend Ruben Wiki.

With veteran big man Ben Matulino set to miss the opening rounds of the season, following surgery on his left knee in January, there is an opening in the engine room for the Kiwi club.

While Jacob Lillyman and Albert Vete are the probable starters, the Warriors have tended to carry three props on their bench in recent times, creating an opportunity for one of their youngsters to earn a spot on the interchange alongside likely candidates Sam Lisone and Charlie Gubb.

"They all put their hand up and it's been a good learning curve for the likes of Isaiah Papalii and Toafofoa Sipley," Wiki said.

"They are knocking on the door of first grade, so hopefully they can learn from this and move on.

"It's just about them putting their best foot forward to show Stephen they can match it in the NRL."

Last year Sipley made his NRL Telstra Premiership debut, playing two matches off the interchange following strong form in the club's Intrust Super Premiership side, while Papalii is yet to play past Holden Cup level, where he appeared in 11 matches for the Junior Warriors in 2016.

Speaking ahead of his appearance for the World All Stars in Friday night's clash against the Indigenous All Stars, Lisone said the props at the Warriors were enjoying the internal competition for places.

"'Mooks' (coach Stephen Kearney) has got a few of us having a run in there, there's a lot of competition coming through," Lisone said.

"Tof Sipley and Isaiah Papalii are putting some pressure on me, Albert and Charlie.

"I thought Isaiah played really well for a young team [at the Nines]."

Both Sipley and Papalii have been named in the Warriors' squad for this Saturday's trial match against the Melbourne Storm at Sunshine Coast Stadium.

 

[Makasene]

Gents, take this as gospel. The MAJOR issue at the Warriors lies with the leadership - or lack thereof - of the senior player group. There is a fundamental flaw within that clique that is apparently very hard to identify at first as it is deep seeded and because the playing group is full of genuinely nice people. However, the reality is that the aspiration of the senior long-term players (who are the constant throughout all the change and inconsistent performance) to influence the culture and lead is approximately zero. Apparently, they are good guys and have talent but they don't want to take responsibility. Nor do they want others to step up around them and grow a constructive environment. Hence, external players are now being picked as leaders: Hoffman and TVS, for example. Shaun Johnson tried to step up and bring some genuine intent to lead and he was pushed back on because of his approach as it made the established players feel uncomfortable. Whenever a coach has cottoned onto this pattern and tried to change this lethargic aspirational culture by pushing them to uncomfortable places, the senior players have the ear of ownership. History shows their complaints are heard. The Warriors' biggest hope is that the young players coming through are not stifled and are given the responsibility to change the approach of the club. Hopefully Stephen Kearney is given the time to do this. But we shall see. Their first outing of 2017 was hardly a promising sign.

That's great insight and unfortunately not all that surprising.

Who are these guys though? Manu I'm guessing, Matulino too. Mannering? The team is very young, there's not that many senior pros that have been there a while. Lillyman comes to mind. Bully might fall into that category.

 

[eudebrito]

That's great insight and unfortunately not all that surprising.

Who are these guys though? Manu I'm guessing, Matulino too. Mannering? The team is very young, there's not that many senior pros that have been there a while. Lillyman comes to mind. Bully might fall into that category.

Not hard to count the holdovers from the Ivan days. Maybe its not relevant to all of them.

Simon Mannering (2nd all time games played for the warriors)
Manu Vatuvei (3rd all time)
Ben Matulino (5th)
Jacob Lillyman (9th)

Senior players, good family men, top blokes. Manu getting into strife last year, apart from that one BIG exception never hear of any trouble out of them. Well nothing bad anyway, some dumb social media use etc.

All been resigned by the club multiple times each.

Mannering and Vatuvei have their names on the wall at Penrose as players to emulate or some such.

Next longest serving is Shaun Johnson, different generation from the above. All his contemporaries from those dominant U20 teams have left. Or come back as minimum players, gubb, gavet.

Next longest serving after that – $5 imaginary dollars to who can get this without looking it up – for games played –


…


Tuimoala Lolohea, 49 games.

We have 5 guys with 120+ games for the warriors, and everyone else is under 50.

Guess that means the 4 at the top have an outsized influence on things, as the vast majority of the squad are relatively new to warriors first grade.

 

[Toopi is King]

All we can hope for is that SK is well aware of it and he implements Bellamy style managing where it doesn't matter how long you have been with the club, but you need to perform. After all SK basically learnt all his coaching under Bellamy, so surely (hopefully) there will be a lot of similar traits, which would be great.

Not starting the sack the coach thread at this stage, and hopefully by midway through the season we will be starting a "knight the coach" page. My main concern for SK is not his ability, but more the players he has to utilise, lets face it, who are the real game changers and consistent better than average players in the team?

Mannering would be one, Shaun Johnson is not consistent, Bully is not consistent, Roger Tuivasa-Sheck is untested with the Warriors set up, Lillyman is not really anything of note, Bodene is 99% there, Foran untested and rumours it won't be until June, Matulino not consistent over the last 2 seasons, so I ask you all what do we have in the way of playing stocks?????

SK has a massive job to turn a team of individuals into a cohesive team unit, if he can do it, we can win, if he can't get everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY, on board with a team ethos, I fear the end result.

GO SK

 

[bruce]

Not hard to count the holdovers from the Ivan days. Maybe talking about all of them, maybe only a couple.

Simon Mannering (2nd all time games played for the warriors)
Manu Vatuvei (3rd all time)
Ben Matulino (5th)
Jacob Lillyman (9th)

Leadership?

Yep, lets sack Mannering, what was that Bruce? WTF is going to do the tackling? Oh sorry Bruce, I forgot about the tackling, I guess somebody has to do that. Mannering doesn't want to be leader anyway, he has enough on his hands doing all that tackling.

Manu looks best on YouTube and makes jokes out of mistakes at training. Should never have been resigned. If he is actually a quasi leader the club really has problems and he should be sent on his way with a thank you note. HTF did he get resigned to that contract anyway? Is this a symptom or a cause?

Mutts is a class player but not a leader, more of a follower, only needs a decent leader to follow.
In reality they haven't had a forward leader since Kevin Campion.

Somebody mentioned Bully as a leader. WTF? He should have been dropped after he turned up unfit last season. He is definitely what dogs regard as an arse sniffer, not a leader.

So what is it? My guess is the elephant in the room. In reality elephants are hard to train, they are big and strong and very intelligent. It is actually quite brutal how they do it. However after the initial brutality they are quote handy at getting things done because they have good memories and never forget what happens if they don't do their job. Many fall by the wayside during training, so a club needs a lot of elephants to start with.

What was that Bruce? So elephant trainers are real hard bastards? Yes Bruce, to train an elephant you have to be a real hard bastard. The elephant either performs or you get rid of it.

 

[Mr Brownstone]

Leadership?

Yep, lets sack Mannering, what was that Bruce? WTF is going to do the tackling? Oh sorry Bruce, I forgot about the tackling, I guess somebody has to do that. Mannering doesn't want to be leader anyway, he has enough on his hands doing all that tackling.

Manu looks best on YouTube and makes jokes out of mistakes at training. Should never have been resigned. If he is actually a quasi leader the club really has problems and he should be sent on his way with a thank you note. HTF did he get resigned to that contract anyway? Is this a symptom or a cause?

Mutts is a class player but not a leader, more of a follower, only needs a decent leader to follow.
In reality they haven't had a forward leader since Kevin Campion.

Somebody mentioned Bully as a leader. WTF? He should have been dropped after he turned up unfit last season. He is definitely what dogs regard as an arse sniffer, not a leader.

So what is it? My guess is the elephant in the room. In reality elephants are hard to train, they are big and strong and very intelligent. It is actually quite brutal how they do it. However after the initial brutality they are quote handy at getting things done because they have good memories and never forget what happens if they don't do their job. Many fall by the wayside during training, so a club needs a lot of elephants to start with.

What was that Bruce? So elephant trainers are real hard bastards? Yes Bruce, to train an elephant you have to be a real hard bastard. The elephant either performs or you get rid of it.

Careful - if you keep talking to yourself like that then diehard will have you committed to an asylum.

That aside, I think I might agree with what I think you might be saying. You can't go blaming blokes that don't have any leadership qualities for being bad leaders of the club. I've said this many times however the single biggest problem with our club is a complete absence of leaders. In my opinion we still haven't come close to recruiting someone who can solve this problem - and before anyone suggests Foran, please just step back and consider where he's at in his life.

 

[1995Warriorsfan]

Here goes Matthew Johns again.

I know he rates the Warriors but every time he says we are going to win the Comp we just explode and don't make the 8.

I just hope the "curse" of Matthew Johns doesn't happen again this year.

Warriors boast the best spine and can win the NRL with Kieran Foran: Matthew Johns

• The NRL finally registered Foran's contract on Wednesday and he will be available to play from round three when the Warriors play in Dunedin against the Canterbury Bulldogs on March 17.
  
  "The Warriors love the big signing, they love the flashy player. My thoughts on the Warriors last year, by looking at their spine, they can win the comp without a doubt or they can finish bottom four," Johns told the Daily Telegraph.
  
  "With Kieran's signing they can win the comp and they won't finish bottom four.
  
  "He gives them really good consistency. It's the best spine on paper in the competition now because Johnson will get huge benefits playing alongside Kieran."
  
  The Warriors have relied heavily on Johnson in recent years to perform at his best, week in, week out.
  
  Johns said Foran will ease the burden on him and allow Johnson to make the most of his devastating running game.
  
  "Kieran will take so much off his shoulders. He plays so straight. But Johnson is a running player," Johns told the Daily Telegraph.
  
  "He can finesse the ball but he's a running player and so with Kieran alongside him playing straight and organising ... that can allow Johnson to just get out there and take the line on without the responsibility of directing the team around weighing heavy on him."
  
  - Stuff

 

[Blain]

We have the Spine to justify these comments.. Although Spine doesn't mean shit when your playing teams like the Bulldogs, Raiders and Cowboys, when their huge forward packs are rolling through us set after set.

Seriously, we haven't changed our forwards at all, and they have been a large part of the problem the last 5 seasons. They've been regularly poor in defence and attack. Hopefully Kearney can sort this.

If the guys can stay on the park, anything less than 6 would be disappointing, bottom 8 a disaster.

 

[Weno]

Was hoping to get another look at Pat Sipley this weekend.
He was good against the Storm.

His star brother looks like he needs a bit more match fitness so thought he would be there for that reason.

Lets go Gubb , get some quality footy in bruv .
No more one grass cutter and miss two.
Bend the line or try busting it.

We have the best spine in the game now.
You big boppers need to deliver to help them out.
And you know once Benny returns one of you will make way , but not if your doing the do.

 

[StephenDedalus]

I'm looking at the team list for this season now and I don't even recognise a few of the names in there, where I am I can't watch any of the U20 or reserve grade games (or even the pre-season trials) so was hoping someone could quickly shed a bit of light on some of them. A few I know a little bit about from reading on here, but how good are Ogden, Papalii and Bell? Are they just there to make up the numbers this year or do yous reckon any of them will have a bit of an impact? Cheers.

 

[mt.wellington]

I'm looking at the team list for this season now and I don't even recognise a few of the names in there, where I am I can't watch any of the U20 or reserve grade games (or even the pre-season trials) so was hoping someone could quickly shed a bit of light on some of them. A few I know a little bit about from reading on here, but how good are Ogden, Papalii and Bell? Are they just there to make up the numbers this year or do yous reckon any of them will have a bit of an impact? Cheers.

Ofahiki Ogden is a good player who plays prop or second row so expect to see him playing wing or centre . He's able, has the frame but wont light the world up I reckon. No different to Ken Maumalo but Ken is better.

James Bell is a solid player who has a good engine. Plays anywhere in the pack including hooker. Only problem he will have is he is quite short but he's a hearty player who can tackle and gets through the work. Likely end up like James Taylor.

Isaiah Papali'i Im picking will be fast tracked. Think he's only 18 but I'll be surprised if the club play him in the NYC. More likely he will play ISP with the odd week off in NYC to help his recovery time. This kid is a pure athlete. Has it all. Engine, aggression, skill, vision... As far as age group kids go this one is the complete package and will debut as early as next year or even this one if injuries hit. Remember the name...

 

[InsideBall]

Papali'i seems to definitely to have jumped a few people up the ladder, given he started the first trial at lock. Pretty big wrap for an 18 y.o kid.

Bell has a good attitude, but he just strikes me as too small to make the jump to FG.

Really looking forward to seeing how Bully goes... sounds like he's in great shape, and ready to fire from round 1. Him being in good form right from the get go might be the single most important factor in our season.

 

[MurrayTD]

Only 16 days 1 hour and 27 minutes and 12 seconds until shit gets real.

 

[mt.wellington]

Only 16 days 1 hour and 27 minutes and 12 seconds until shit gets real.

tajhay is the countdown clock still working???