General 2016 Warriors Stats

[Jay M]

That is a silly stat. What is relevant is errors per touch. Players that handle the ball more will naturally make more errors.

It might be a silly stat. But it is a stat all the same. Which was used to refute a point about stats which were unfairly picking on Manu.

Care to provide the errors per touch stats so we can look at those instead? I can't be bothered to drag them out.

For the record, I wasn't saying Shaun Johnson was error prone, merely providing information that Manu isn't the most error-prone player in the NRL this season.

 

[Ozwarrior]

If Manu played a full season how many more errors would he have? He played 14 games so comparing him to players who played more games is silly. Manu has ALWAYS had butter fingers! It was his speed and strength that kept in in the team! Well his speed is gone! Still has strength but his butter fingers haven't left him! Also now he's always hurt physically and mentally. I believe we will never turn the corner with Manu on the team! Fuck Manu can't even turn around!

 

[Play The Ball]

That stat is also useless. It's easier to make a mistake trying to recover an attacking kick, take an intercept, or ball play, compared to trundling it up the guts. Johnno Wright as an example, some of his errors will be when he's got a touch on a pass going outside him which shut down an overlap. Good play, but it's recorded as an error

It gives you a better idea rather than just a total errors count. But yes I take your point. Stats don't tell the whole story.

 

[Play The Ball]

And many others are when he has the line WIDE OPEN and "Hands of mortar" drops the pill cold... Or just has to get a hand on the pill to ground it when it's already over the line, and he finds a way to knock it on ... I'd take either of the Kiwi Women's team's wingers over JW. They would probably be more endowed than him too.

More often than not his intercept attempts bounce of his chest ... He's clumbsy and incompetent at 1st Grade Level... But he is a pretty fair reflection of a Cappy McFadden coached player with a less than average base skill set.

JW has the attacking potency of back-firing cap gun.

Please stop talking about him, he's the worst example you could use

Such a dumb post. The Sharks are going ok with Shane Flanagan - a guy who had Wright in first grade while he was at the Sharks. Is Flanagan an idiot too? Wright has played 130 first grade games - most with a coach other than McFadden.
You have to have players on your roster that are on minimum salary otherwise you wouldn't get Shaun Johnson, Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Mannering etc on the big $$. Wright does his job by and large. He will never set the world on fire and shouldn't be anything other than a reserve grade fill-in when top guys are injured etc. If people think Wright is the biggest problem with this team/roster they really know very little about the game.

 

[Mr Brownstone]

If Manu played a full season how many more errors would he have? He played 14 games so comparing him to players who played more games is silly. Manu has ALWAYS had butter fingers! It was his speed and strength that kept in in the team! Well his speed is gone! Still has strength but his butter fingers haven't left him! Also now he's always hurt physically and mentally. I believe we will never turn the corner with Manu on the team! Fuck Manu can't even turn around!

I reckon Manu has probably been our best under the high ball this season, he's taken some very difficult catches under immense pressure and I can't recall many dropped balls in those situations at all. Perhaps forget about prop - stick him at fullback (joke).

That aside, I reckon there's a bit of herd mentality that plays out on here with regard to critiquing performance. Whenever we lose the usual suspects start launching in about dumping Manu when he's hardly been the most responsible for the loss. As an example - last game against the Tigers I felt that Leuluai's goal line defence was dreadful, for mine he contributed the most to us losing. However he's being mentioned by some as being one of only a couple that can hold their head high. Strange.

 

[Play The Ball]

It might be a silly stat. But it is a stat all the same. Which was used to refute a point about stats which were unfairly picking on Manu.

Care to provide the errors per touch stats so we can look at those instead? I can't be bothered to drag them out.

For the record, I wasn't saying Shaun Johnson was error prone, merely providing information that Manu isn't the most error-prone player in the NRL this season.

Not a criticism of you at all. Stats are stats - they tell some of the story but not all. I'd hardly call Shaun Johnson error-prone. Other criticism maybe but he's not too bad on the error count IMO. Can't say the same of Manu - too many unnecessary errors.

 

[Play The Ball]

I reckon Manu has probably been our best under the high ball this season, he's taken some very difficult catches under immense pressure and I can't recall many dropped balls in those situations at all. Perhaps forget about prop - stick him at fullback (joke).

That aside, I reckon there's a bit of herd mentality that plays out on here with regard to critiquing performance. Whenever we lose the usual suspects start launching in about dumping Manu when he's hardly been the most responsible for the loss. As an example - last game against the Tigers I felt that Leuluai's goal line defence was dreadful, for mine he contributed the most to us losing. However he's being mentioned by some as being one of only a couple that can hold their head high. Strange.

Leuluai was terrible against the Tigers but that was an aberration IMO. Not fair to blame everything on Manu but his value to the team is the lowest that I can recall right now and we can see what else they could do with his chunk of the cap. Same can be said for many others too - Lillyman, Matulino, Hoffman etc.

 

[Jay M]

Not a criticism of you at all. Stats are stats - they tell some of the story but not all. I'd hardly call Shaun Johnson error-prone. Other criticism maybe but he's not too bad on the error count IMO. Can't say the same of Manu - too many unnecessary errors.

less than 1 error a game for a half is acceptable (IMO), more than 1 error per game for an outside back on average is probably not acceptable on average. but it depends on the types of errors and why they have occurred. Some errors (like penalties) can be good ones. Some are bad ones.

Oddly, I understand where jonno was coming from because for years Manu did have one of the worst rates in the comp. This year, it's not as bad. But I'm wondering if Kata not passing might be helping Manu out a bit there as well

 

[6 Again]

The other thing the error stats don't reflect is where they occur on the field, Manu's errors are amplified because of the context in which the generally occur, either coming out of our end zone or the fatal last pass before a run at the try line. The wing can be a lonely place for a big man with hams for hands.

 

[Inruin]

less than 1 error a game for a half is acceptable (IMO), more than 1 error per game for an outside back on average is probably not acceptable on average. but it depends on the types of errors and why they have occurred. Some errors (like penalties) can be good ones. Some are bad ones.

Oddly, I understand where jonno was coming from because for years Manu did have one of the worst rates in the comp. This year, it's not as bad. But I'm wondering if Kata not passing might be helping Manu out a bit there as well

and I think Manu is also struggling to get anywhere near the ball at times to register an error. He can be so slow to turn and slow to react that the game has passed him before he can even make the error!

 

[Mr Brownstone]

Leuluai was terrible against the Tigers but that was an aberration IMO. Not fair to blame everything on Manu but his value to the team is the lowest that I can recall right now and we can see what else they could do with his chunk of the cap. Same can be said for many others too - Lillyman, Matulino, Hoffman etc.

Don't disagree with any of that other than to suggest that the last couple of games have been an aberration for Thomas. I had been really impressed with him this season up to that point.

 

[tajhay]

How often does manu actually get the ball relative to when he does fumble and drop it????

SJ, Hoffman, Mannering probably touches the ball 10X more than Manu.

Receives and errors per game in 2016 only:
Shaun Johnson 56.55 / 0.95 = fuckup every 60 touches
Hoffman 16.29 / 0.60 = fuckup every 27 touches
Mannering 18.10 / 0.95 = fuckup every 19 touches
Vatuvei 16 / 1.15 = fuckup every 13 touches

Out of that lot, manu receives the least ball, but makes the most errors per game from his limited touches.

All the information is available at https://www.nzwarriors.com/stats/

 

[Iafetas Kickstand Wang]

Not a criticism of you at all. Stats are stats - they tell some of the story but not all. I'd hardly call Shaun Johnson error-prone. Other criticism maybe but he's not too bad on the error count IMO. Can't say the same of Manu - too many unnecessary errors.

I think that's a better stat - kinda like tennis. Unforced error stat. Even that though needs to be viewed in context - was an unforced error made through seeing an opportunity and trying to take it, particularly for halves.

JRo I recall didn't have a particularly high missed tackle rate. But he was routinely exploited for racing up and in and being out of position completely.

I'm firmly in the Cappy has to go camp. Every year we start slow, finish terribly, and have a decent middle. We've changed captains, assistant coaches, he's had a highly paid mentor of a high caliber, and from what I hear a big part of the resurrection came from a crisis meeting where the players begged for permission to play what was in front of them. There's no sign of improvement- keeping him IMO secures more of the same next year. Eventually that will make us less marketable and see a drop in crowds, and certainly make players who can make a difference even more reluctant to come to the Warriors.

 

[Crappy McFukkup]

If Manu played a full season how many more errors would he have? He played 14 games so comparing him to players who played more games is silly. Manu has ALWAYS had butter fingers! It was his speed and strength that kept in in the team! Well his speed is gone! Still has strength but his butter fingers haven't left him! Also now he's always hurt physically and mentally. I believe we will never turn the corner with Manu on the team! Fuck Manu can't even turn around!

It seems his best days are behind him, granted ... In the Cowboys game, he's the only Warrior to run for more than 100m and I think he did it comfortably 140-ish .. All "hard yards" against the reigning premiers.

The butter fingers come and go, sure.

But the meters out of yardage/strong carriers are very important.

The Australian outside back contingent do not have that element to their game, and are likely to make negative yardage on red zone carries. And if that results in them, or the next runner getting bundled up in-goal cause of previous dominance in the tackle, then that's as bad as dropping a kick.

He's still a far better all-round option than JW... If we could bank on Manu only averaging 1-1.5 mistakes per game. I'd pick him every time he was available ... He's not what he was at the height of his powers, but he is one of the NRL's best backs for carting the pill out of the redzone.

 

[Miket12]

Receives and errors per game in 2016 only:
Shaun Johnson 56.55 / 0.95 = fuckup every 60 touches
Hoffman 16.29 / 0.60 = fuckup every 27 touches
Mannering 18.10 / 0.95 = fuckup every 19 touches
Vatuvei 16 / 1.15 = fuckup every 13 touches

Out of that lot, manu receives the least ball, but makes the most errors per game from his limited touches.

All the information is available at https://www.nzwarriors.com/stats/

I know you've only looked at the four players mentioned in the original post, but here's one more for the list:
The People's Champ 13.63 / 1.75 = FU every 8 touches.

Oh, and just like you rounded SJ7 up for his 59.5 to 60 touches, you really should have rounded Manu's up from 13.9 to 14. Yes, still bad but not quite as much as you'd shown

 

[tajhay]

Just going through the stats and noticed that Shaun Johnson kicked 4 40/20s in 2013. He kicked another in 2014. In the past 2 years he has kicked 0. WTH has happened there? For someone to have the ability to kick 4 in one season to a total of 1 in the next 3 seasons is nuts. Has Cappy reigned that in?

 

[Miket12]

Just going through the stats and noticed that Shaun Johnson kicked 4 40/20s in 2013. He kicked another in 2014. In the past 2 years he has kicked 0. WTH has happened there? For someone to have the ability to kick 4 in one season to a total of 1 in the next 3 seasons is nuts. Has Cappy reigned that in?

They made the comment after the Tigers game that his kicking is still being restricted because of a leg injury but why not then spend time training someone else to try them? Probably to busy working on their golden point field goal tactics!!

 

[tajhay]

He's not what he was at the height of his powers, but he is one of the NRL's best backs for carting the pill out of the redzone.

He has to cart the ball up from our redzone because our forward pack is impotent doing the very task they are supposed to be doing.

HITUP metres per game (not including running metres)

 

[Miket12]

He has to cart the ball up from our redzone because our forward pack is impotent doing the task they are supposed to be doing.

HITUP metres per game (not including running metres)
View attachment 20877

Really makes you wonder about why our forwards just can't bend the line on a regular basis. Then you see that two of the top five are outside backs. Pretty pathetic really!!!

 

[Crappy McFukkup]

He has to cart the ball up from our redzone because our forward pack is impotent doing the task they are supposed to be doing.

HITUP metres per game (not including running metres)
View attachment 20877

That says it all doesn't ... The real HARD YARDS...

... And the top 3 blokes getting criticised on here for lack of performance ... They are busting their asses at the coal face and most people miss it.

The only game we win in golden point this year (I think we only won one ?)... Was a brilliant Shaun Johnson try in the 89th ... How many people recall Muts busting his arse on the last play of regulation time to stop the drop goal.

Muts & Lillyman are unjustly picked on in here... They play their part, don't worry about that !!