Long term or short, Who do you think should be playing five 8? Where is Tui going to be playing when Roger Tuivasa-Sheck is at Fullback next year? Id like him at Five Eight so he gets as much ball as possible. But where does that leave the likes of Hingano who seems destined for First grade?
kbazi
Short term, I definitely think it should remain TL. I've always backed TL in this spot because he can tackle and he always runs at the line before passing, giving Shaun Johnson that extra room.
Medium term, when Roger Tuivasa-Sheck is back, Tui should be positioned as our 6.
Long term, I think a lot of the forum will want Hingano to be there but it's so difficult to plan for Long term these days when a lot of clubs are throwing money around for junior talent. I suspect if we ever got to a stage where Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Tui and Shaun Johnson were clicking in a couple years time, Hingano would have already been snapped up by Union, NRL or Super League.
I like the current position we're in with depth in that position, it's just a massive shame Roger Tuivasa-Sheck got ruled out with that injury, preventing us to be able to capitalise on the depth.
Medium term, when Roger Tuivasa-Sheck is back, Tui should be positioned as our 6.
Long term, I think a lot of the forum will want Hingano to be there but it's so difficult to plan for Long term these days when a lot of clubs are throwing money around for junior talent. I suspect if we ever got to a stage where Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Tui and Shaun Johnson were clicking in a couple years time, Hingano would have already been snapped up by Union, NRL or Super League.
I like the current position we're in with depth in that position, it's just a massive shame Roger Tuivasa-Sheck got ruled out with that injury, preventing us to be able to capitalise on the depth.
Beastmode
Just another day in paradise
Contributor
Depends. Are we still chasing a top 8? Cappy certainly is, so LoLo at FB is the safest bet.
Bad for his development no doubt.
As for TL, I think he will come right - he just needs more game time to rub off The cobwebs.
After any win, in Cappy I trust.
Bad for his development no doubt.
As for TL, I think he will come right - he just needs more game time to rub off The cobwebs.
After any win, in Cappy I trust.
Bring Hingano up next against the Knights and start him. See how he goes, as Lolo will be the fullback for the year. Keep that spine until next year, and then we can talk further. Send Lulu to the UK please. He's a short term disaster. Worse than Robson.
kbazi
Why? Hingano is performing in ISP, not NRL level. An average NRL team would beat an ISP team 40+ on any given day. It's not apples to apples.
I don't understand get the criticism that TL is getting, he was solid yesterday.
We are at a make/break stage for our finals chances. We need to win every game we can around this origin period, to ensure we can make the 8. If we make the 8, we will be a whole different beast come finals - it's a different mentality.
Knights are not to be taken lightly, the Warriors shouldn't take anyone lightly - We should be in no rush to bring in Hingano when it's not necessary. Not to mention his ISP confidence wouldn't be reflective in the NRL. He would be playing conservative and likely not what we're seeing in ISP.
Leave everything as is. Not to mention our ISP team is coming 2nd now. ISP is just as much of a business to the club as NRL. Admittedly NRL is more of a preference, but winning ISP is still a priority for the club.
Thats just it though, he was solid yesterday but that was the first time he played a decent game all season...... Hes barely kicked the ball on last plays, hes wasnt taking on the line the way he did yesterday eitha.
Some halves step up when they get to the nrl so you never really know. Shaun Johnson and Benji both killed it on there debut seasons at young ages.....
OMG
If that was Robson or Shaun Johnson passing uncatchable passes, passes 30m behind, falling off tackles at both ends of the field they get absolutely slammed to trolling levels, any good they have done in the game gets completely forgotten, where are those posts? And thats for the wins the losses is completely different.
TL will not get better IMO, this is as good as it gets, one of the most over rated players ever to wear the colours and the poorest half currently playing, he has a great hit when he can manage it though.
Ata is the future, we may not have the chance to use him again.
Its a shame everyone thinks we're building for the future, if the History of Rugby League shows you anything, its that the Future is right now.
Next year we could have half the team out with injuries, it wouldn't be the 1st time, play every game like its your last is the best advice you can offer anyone IMO.
TL will not get better IMO, this is as good as it gets, one of the most over rated players ever to wear the colours and the poorest half currently playing, he has a great hit when he can manage it though.
Ata is the future, we may not have the chance to use him again.
Its a shame everyone thinks we're building for the future, if the History of Rugby League shows you anything, its that the Future is right now.
Next year we could have half the team out with injuries, it wouldn't be the 1st time, play every game like its your last is the best advice you can offer anyone IMO.
For me long term it has to be Hingano, he'll provide a better foil for S.J's style of play, he has a more direct game than Tui and also kicks off his left foot which is invaluable because it gives us another very good kicking option. He's already ahead of Tui in his development at five eighth having come right through the grades in that position and is now under the tutelage of Stacey Jones, who better to learn the craft from in NZ.
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Ever Hopeful
Contributor
Ata seems too light-weight for consistent first grade. The step up from reserve grade to 1st grade is exponentially harder in the halves because a player has so much less time to make decisions. I love the fact players are doing their apprenticeships in the lower grades whilst their bodies develop. How many weeks could Hingano survive some of the games best and biggest battering rams crashing into him atm?
It depends on what the club wants from a stand off. If they want a running five-eighth then Lolo, but that will put extra pressure on Shaun Johnson to run the game and kick, which I'm not sure is good for the team.
If the club wants a defensive stop-gap player then TL is the best we have at the moment. It has worked for the Storm for years due to a kicking hooker. We also have a playmaking hooker this year.
If the club wants a tactical kicker and link man then we don't have one that is first grade ready IMHO. I want a tactical kicker in the mould of a Soward, so I would like the club to recruit in the no6 jersey for next year. In the mean time I'd go conservative and play TL there until he buggers off (and no, that is not a plug for TL being overly competent).
Robson is a fair defender, fair link man and fair to poor kicker so I wouldn't be upset to see him there either.
Where to put Lolo is always going to be a headache for this club.
It depends on what the club wants from a stand off. If they want a running five-eighth then Lolo, but that will put extra pressure on Shaun Johnson to run the game and kick, which I'm not sure is good for the team.
If the club wants a defensive stop-gap player then TL is the best we have at the moment. It has worked for the Storm for years due to a kicking hooker. We also have a playmaking hooker this year.
If the club wants a tactical kicker and link man then we don't have one that is first grade ready IMHO. I want a tactical kicker in the mould of a Soward, so I would like the club to recruit in the no6 jersey for next year. In the mean time I'd go conservative and play TL there until he buggers off (and no, that is not a plug for TL being overly competent).
Robson is a fair defender, fair link man and fair to poor kicker so I wouldn't be upset to see him there either.
Where to put Lolo is always going to be a headache for this club.
Hingano is short term and long term! He's better than Lulu RIGHT NOW. I'm not thinking we go long term only by putting in Hingano. I'm thinking let him develop from game one in the FG against the Knights, and he'll only get better from the Knights game. Keep Lulu in from here on out, and he'll get WORSE.
As an alternative, put Lolo in at 6 and move Fusitua to fullback. But please, not Lulu.
As an alternative, put Lolo in at 6 and move Fusitua to fullback. But please, not Lulu.
The Cheap Seats
Love the thread. Great addition to the team debate. Thanks 69kingswood.
I feel strongly that Leuluai should be the back-up/injury 6 only. He is a declining force in that position, and we have 2 young talents in Lolohea and Hingano pushing their credentials. Not to mention Lino, who I also rate but is probably behind in the pecking order.
A green Hingano will offer the same value as Leuluai at the moment IMO, and Lolohea has already surpassed him.
Playing one of the young guys strengthens the First Grade Team, and offers great value/mentoring to the Reserve team.
To get Lolohea into the 6 we need:
IMO, the only thing holding Lolohea out of the 6 position is Cappy not having enough faith in Fusitua in the Fullback role.
Fusitua's solid effort against the Broncos on the wing, as well as the great job he did filling in the position after injury earlier in the season should hopefully help alleviate his concerns. We then just need a wing replacement. Cappy rates Wright, but I'd be keen on Maumalo to offer greater future prospects.
To get Hingano into the 6 we need:
We would need Leuluai to go down injured, and Cappy would get to keep the squad as it is (just one replacement).
To get Leuluai out of the 6 we need:
For Tommy to be fit and still performing to the same standard as he is, we would need Isaac Luke to go down injured. Tommy would be the natural replacement in that position, although Tevaga/Roache would still be in the squad too as Cappy prefers the 2 hooker approach. I would suggest that Tommy would be second to either of those guys on form, so he would be playing the lesser minutes (maybe equal) of the hooking combo.
Those are my thoughts, BUT, if we keep winning like we did against the Bronco's......
......Who cares. The job is filled and the Warriors are winning.
I feel strongly that Leuluai should be the back-up/injury 6 only. He is a declining force in that position, and we have 2 young talents in Lolohea and Hingano pushing their credentials. Not to mention Lino, who I also rate but is probably behind in the pecking order.
A green Hingano will offer the same value as Leuluai at the moment IMO, and Lolohea has already surpassed him.
Playing one of the young guys strengthens the First Grade Team, and offers great value/mentoring to the Reserve team.
To get Lolohea into the 6 we need:
IMO, the only thing holding Lolohea out of the 6 position is Cappy not having enough faith in Fusitua in the Fullback role.
Fusitua's solid effort against the Broncos on the wing, as well as the great job he did filling in the position after injury earlier in the season should hopefully help alleviate his concerns. We then just need a wing replacement. Cappy rates Wright, but I'd be keen on Maumalo to offer greater future prospects.
To get Hingano into the 6 we need:
We would need Leuluai to go down injured, and Cappy would get to keep the squad as it is (just one replacement).
To get Leuluai out of the 6 we need:
For Tommy to be fit and still performing to the same standard as he is, we would need Isaac Luke to go down injured. Tommy would be the natural replacement in that position, although Tevaga/Roache would still be in the squad too as Cappy prefers the 2 hooker approach. I would suggest that Tommy would be second to either of those guys on form, so he would be playing the lesser minutes (maybe equal) of the hooking combo.
Those are my thoughts, BUT, if we keep winning like we did against the Bronco's......
......Who cares. The job is filled and the Warriors are winning.
OMG
I had been thinking the same about his weight but take a look at a replay from yesterday, Ata is very strong defensively, far better than we are accustomed to from u20s level, it actually shocked me a touch, looks at home in a defensive line.
Ata's kicking game is only 2nd to Shaun Johnson IMO, he actually could be better going forward, this will relieve pressure from Shaun Johnson, don't we want Shaun Johnson running the game??
I do think they may be worried about Cap implications.
Stop Gap, LOL, The Storm have never really had a stop gap 6, they have always had someone that can slip into that role and relieve pressure, it sure helps when you have 3 of the best organisational players in the 1, 7 , 9 though, there have been some real handy 6s at the Storm over the years.
Who says we don't have one that is 1st grade ready? No one will know until he is given a shot, but every week Ata is standing out over 1st grade players, from kicking, to game management to what he does with the ball in hand. I haven't been sold on him until recently and now I'm completely sold, this kids the real deal and exactly what Shaun Johnson is in need of IMO, what is the point of him proving himself in Reserve Grade week in week out if we aren't going to play him? They should send him back to u20s if they're not.
There would always be the option to run Hingano at five eight and have Leuluai off the bench as cover for 6/9, It wouldn't be the worst idea.
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Sup42
To my way of thinking the Warriors need Kieran Foran.
No one else in the world is a proven sure thing to partner Johnson.
I realise that ain't gonna happen coz we tried before looking at anyone else like Luke and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, so Jim knows it.
Every other option in this thread is a future gamble or a make do suggestion.
Those are the cold hard facts
There are other suitable names like Cronk, Thurston, maybe Reynolds, even Hunt who would be what the Warriors actually need.
Not since Henry Paul have we seen a suitable partner for a Warriors half and that was only seen at international level akin to what we see with Johnson and Foran.
The reason we need that type of stand off.....more than any other team in the NRL is that organising and distribution has been the curse of the Warriors.
When we had Jones, he played a lone hand, he was a sitting duck for opposition coaches to build strategy against.
When Stacey was king, his partner was make shift, utility at best, and therefore could not take the pressure off the little general in an organising/decision making sense.....that player did not have a boot to pressure the opposition and starve them of territory.
The closest Johnson has come to that type of partner was the Pom. The Pom must have had a clause in his contract keeping him out of the front line, otherwise we would have seen him with his deft kicks, superior passing, and organisation of structured play.....giving Johnson the best offsider he could have hoped for.....Tomkin's could read a play....he was a five eight the Warriors never used.
We have some young prospects in Tui and Ata.
But....if we want to try something we have never achieved.....we might try two world class halves who compliment each other before trying to find patch up solutions to get the best out of Johnson.....in the same way we tried patch ups to get the most put of Jones.
Johnson needs a friend.
Fuck Wingers and Fullbacks....we make silky locals or power runners in those positions by the dozen.
Get some one as good as Johnson in the halves. Find two defensive centers who pass, and use the plethora of Tuis and Fusituas to finish well constructed back line movements on the edges.
Throw the last of the Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Manu, Hurrell, Matulino, Lillyman coin on beast prop pairing, that five eight, and a class left center.
No one else in the world is a proven sure thing to partner Johnson.
I realise that ain't gonna happen coz we tried before looking at anyone else like Luke and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, so Jim knows it.
Every other option in this thread is a future gamble or a make do suggestion.
Those are the cold hard facts
There are other suitable names like Cronk, Thurston, maybe Reynolds, even Hunt who would be what the Warriors actually need.
Not since Henry Paul have we seen a suitable partner for a Warriors half and that was only seen at international level akin to what we see with Johnson and Foran.
The reason we need that type of stand off.....more than any other team in the NRL is that organising and distribution has been the curse of the Warriors.
When we had Jones, he played a lone hand, he was a sitting duck for opposition coaches to build strategy against.
When Stacey was king, his partner was make shift, utility at best, and therefore could not take the pressure off the little general in an organising/decision making sense.....that player did not have a boot to pressure the opposition and starve them of territory.
The closest Johnson has come to that type of partner was the Pom. The Pom must have had a clause in his contract keeping him out of the front line, otherwise we would have seen him with his deft kicks, superior passing, and organisation of structured play.....giving Johnson the best offsider he could have hoped for.....Tomkin's could read a play....he was a five eight the Warriors never used.
We have some young prospects in Tui and Ata.
But....if we want to try something we have never achieved.....we might try two world class halves who compliment each other before trying to find patch up solutions to get the best out of Johnson.....in the same way we tried patch ups to get the most put of Jones.
Johnson needs a friend.
Fuck Wingers and Fullbacks....we make silky locals or power runners in those positions by the dozen.
Get some one as good as Johnson in the halves. Find two defensive centers who pass, and use the plethora of Tuis and Fusituas to finish well constructed back line movements on the edges.
Throw the last of the Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Manu, Hurrell, Matulino, Lillyman coin on beast prop pairing, that five eight, and a class left center.
Ever Hopeful
Contributor
Foran would probably be keen to get out of the Sydney limelight right about now.
I don't know if it was click bait, but there was an article today on Stuff stating that Brad Arthur is the leading candidate for Cappy's job next season. Foran has an out-clause to follow him again.
I must say that Foran was number one on my want list last season despite our need for a prop and a hooker. He is like another forward, yet has a good kicking game too. Will he ever play the same again though?
How embarrassing would it be if we had the Kiwi spine and still couldn't make the eight!?
I don't know if it was click bait, but there was an article today on Stuff stating that Brad Arthur is the leading candidate for Cappy's job next season. Foran has an out-clause to follow him again.
I must say that Foran was number one on my want list last season despite our need for a prop and a hooker. He is like another forward, yet has a good kicking game too. Will he ever play the same again though?
How embarrassing would it be if we had the Kiwi spine and still couldn't make the eight!?
I can't imagine Foran leaving his two small children in Sydney while he lives and plays sport in different country, for me that rules him out completely and possibly forever.
These other names that get thrown around are far fetched IMO and that cap space should be spent on a quality front row leader. Thurston, Cronk, Hunt we need to pull our heads out of the clouds, I can't think of one good reason why any of them would want to come to Auckland but I could think of 10 very good reason why they wouldn't.
Its not a comparison but we have a gifted five eight in waiting in Hingano and like every other future star player that's gone before him he will have to make the transition to first grade, if he doesn't do it for the Warriors he'll do it for another NRL club and that would be a travesty far worse than the perception some have in losing Konrad Hurrell.
If people don't know much about this kid they should do themselves a favor and follow him in the ISP competition.
These other names that get thrown around are far fetched IMO and that cap space should be spent on a quality front row leader. Thurston, Cronk, Hunt we need to pull our heads out of the clouds, I can't think of one good reason why any of them would want to come to Auckland but I could think of 10 very good reason why they wouldn't.
Its not a comparison but we have a gifted five eight in waiting in Hingano and like every other future star player that's gone before him he will have to make the transition to first grade, if he doesn't do it for the Warriors he'll do it for another NRL club and that would be a travesty far worse than the perception some have in losing Konrad Hurrell.
If people don't know much about this kid they should do themselves a favor and follow him in the ISP competition.
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brightman
Hang on a minute.. didn't Shaun Johnson lead us to victory over the Broncos on Saturday? Who ever was in the 6 jersey obviously did well enough partnering our lead play maker.
Next season will offer different options with no Robson (thank goodness!), Roger Tuivasa-Sheck returning from injury and freeing up Tui and rumours of Shoulders moving onto the ESL could possibly eventuate. That leaves us a little light in depth but figuring the ISP players we still have good options and TBH Hingano has the best upside given that we need a distributor to play 2nd fiddle to Shaun Johnson ala Foran.
Before going overseas, look in your own backyard. Lolo and Ata are available and willing. Give them a chance. Robson/Lulu get you nowhere.
Just saying that at some point, preferably sooner rather than later, you have to see what Lolo and Ata can do. That would decide if we need another 6 the rest of this year, or next year. Probably Ata more so than Lolo, because Lolo will fit in somewhere. If we have a 6 on the B team in Ata, and he could be the answer we're looking for, why not put him there?
I really don't understand Lulu at 6. He doesn't want to be there, is a hooker, and plays poorly. For some reason, Cappy loves him. Maybe it's because he's older, is a senior, leadership player, owes Cappy money, dates his sister, or worse. Someone please tell me why oh why he persists with Lulu. I know. Cappy's blind.
I really don't understand Lulu at 6. He doesn't want to be there, is a hooker, and plays poorly. For some reason, Cappy loves him. Maybe it's because he's older, is a senior, leadership player, owes Cappy money, dates his sister, or worse. Someone please tell me why oh why he persists with Lulu. I know. Cappy's blind.
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