JoeyJohns

Guest
Dunno why everyone blames kidwell, we were crap last year as well. The players Need to shoulder more more responsibility if we are going to become good for any length of time. He might be shit but they are the ones on the field playing the game, these are professional players ffs.

They won the 2015 Anzac test but just lost the series to GB without Foran, Johnson, Tommy & Mannering.

You're right about the players but it's the coach's job to sort them out mentally. He was set up to fail. An Assistant Coach promoted to the KIWIS alongside a recently sacked NRL Assistant & a SL coach. Their misuse of the bench in Perth (which even Gus n Joey were screaming about during the game), the selection of the squad (despite the injuries to key personnel), and the Harris/Martin debacle, all of which many of us keyboard warriors complained about (there's a worry) before the series kicked off.

Even SK was entrusted with Wayne Bennett as a mentor before the 2008 World Cup. You know yourself - If you take the job, Make it happen.

If the boys played with mana (yet still lost) I don't think the fans would be shitting on him so much.
 

Tragic

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 27, 2016
4,670
Kumeu
Who do you propose should be the hooker and interchange hooker/utility? Leuluai is unlikely to be considered for ANZAC test next year.

We may have decent depth in the forwards but backs/halves/hooker is very worrying.
anyone would be better than him at the moment, tevaga, roache, TL still beter, even mason lino, he can pass and run.
 
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jsmooove

1st Grade Fringe
May 18, 2012
1,573
I do t think Kidwell can change it nor do we have time. The RLWC Semi final is less than 53 weeks away and I can see us getting done by England.

As for Shaun Johnson telling players where to go, it appears from Gould's comments that the team is poorly coached.

Didn't think I'd say it but can we have Kearney back?
have to agree with that. im not sure what he toldd players or what the game plan was. i would of thought coaches would have "dirt sheets" on all players. player a is always good for an offload make sure he has support runners. have players in motion when player b has the ball and have the defense guessing etc
 

Wellington Warrior

Warriors 1st Grader
May 15, 2012
6,028
Wellington, New Zealand
Didn't bother contemplating getting up for the game based on previous performances...

Writing was on the wall the minute Harris was named at 6. Can't rely solely on Shaun Johnson to do it all. Aussies know to target him and shut down our only option.

What sort of a coach doesn't have a plan B in case one of his playmakers goes down injured?? Coach picks Martin in the squad but instead chooses a backrower to play in the halves. Dumb.
Do you think Aussie would consider a viable option putting someone like Boyd Cordiner into one of the most crucial attacking positions??

From watching the replay of the 2014 final we really missed, Foran, Mannering, Whare - hell even Manu and Hiku were good in that game!

On top of that we may never see Taumalolo in a kiwis shirt again..
 
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Selector

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 2, 2015
2,283
Who do you propose should be the hooker and interchange hooker/utility? Leuluai is unlikely to be considered for ANZAC test next year.

We may have decent depth in the forwards but backs/halves/hooker is very worrying.
In

Manaia Cherrington went on tour with the Kiwis last year.
Danny Levi one of the premier young hookers in the game.
Fa'amanu Brown won a premiership with the Sharks. Perfect utility player can cover halves and hooker.
Sione Katoa from the Panthers.

Kidwell talked about using the tournament as an opportunity to blood youngsters. But instead he does the opposite.

Martin he only gave him 20 minutes against Scotland and that was primaely due to the injury to Leuluai. He choose the likes of SKD and JWH who performed poorly consistently over the Likes of Fusitu'a, Tapine and JFH
 

Weno

1st Grade Fringe
Nov 3, 2012
2,567
Who do you propose should be the hooker and interchange hooker/utility? Leuluai is unlikely to be considered for ANZAC test next year.

We may have decent depth in the forwards but backs/halves/hooker is very worrying.
Luke - All of our hookers come off the bench or play reserve grade.
Cherrington , Roache , Levi , Nikorima , Brown , Havili (Hooker/ Back row , Lock)

Blair - Matulino , Mataora , rookies Vete , Fonua Blake , Musgrove in future but I can see one of them becoming our next bookend .

SKD - Whare / Hiku / Takairangi / Milne.

Nightingale - Fusitua has is spot now , but there is Dallin Watene-Zelezniak , rookies Jessie Manu , Remis Smith in future.

Many more out there, we might get a bolter next year , who knows.

Looking forward to Shaun Nona , hope he can push his way into the Dragons.
He was good for the Cutters in there final against Burleigh.
 

snake77

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 12, 2013
10,209
Auckland
Sure adding Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Whare, Hiku, Foran and Mannering into that squad would make a huge difference. But what I find amazing is our guys all come from the NRL and have the best coaching available, our coaching staff all have experience coaching in the NRL yet we still struggle to come together as a cohesive unit and come off as unorganized.

I could partially understand when we were picking guys from Australia, England and New Zealand. Or part timers or guys that were playing in the UK but were back in New Zealand during their off season.

Our guys are all full time professional but come together like amateurs.
 

Jordan G

Guest
In

Manaia Cherrington went on tour with the Kiwis last year.
Danny Levi one of the premier young hookers in the game.
Fa'amanu Brown won a premiership with the Sharks. Perfect utility player can cover halves and hooker.
Sione Katoa from the Panthers.

None of those guys should be picked ahead of Luke until they actually do something in first grade. He's not playing well, but we simply don't have a replacement for Luke at the moment.
 

Swanley

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 13, 2012
3,126
Tonbridge, Kent, UK
I feel asleep and I live in England!

Seriously, Kidwell came up against a mighty Australian team. If we had Mannering and Foran playing, the result may have been different.

It's easy to defend for Australia and be aggressive when doing it when the kiwis have only one attacking player. Kidwell's big two mistakes were playing SKD and not playing Te Martin. Playing Te Martin gives the kiwis options and takes some of the pressure off Shaun Johnson.

Live and learn....

He'll be better for the experience.

Justin Morgan needs to go. the 1st two tries were basic backline moves that International centres/wingers should be able to defend against. He's turned our strong defensive team into a sieve.
 
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Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
24,035
Missed the game coz things have been heavy at my work ( heavy means your shit might get fkd up and you could end up a headline).

Had to have me eight hours to be on point tonight.
.
Sounds like the effort wasn't there ? As opposed to the problems in the tests I watched which were more about a lack of direction ( no Foran), fundamental errors (SKD had a Manu of a time) and lots of other contributing bits.

But if a lack of effort was apparent then DK must go. He is the 'play with passion guy....if there was no Passion.....DK's got nuthn
 
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mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Jun 21, 2012
22,810
Mt. Wellington, Auckland
The Kiwis may have their issues but lets not lose sight of the fact that the Australian team were quite clinical and damn near the perfect balance. Hats off to Mel Meninga for being able to immediately identify and rectify the Kangaroos problems. As I posted earlier he has simply taken the Kiwis template of a big mobile pack and juiced it up. You look at the heights and weights of the Roos pack and they make for some really impressive reading. Add to that the four outside backs who would walk into any team in the world and a spine that contains at least two future immortals and the Kiwis were always behind the 8 ball.

That pack was able to get a roll on straight down our middle almost at will. Times like that we see the huge difference Simon Mannering makes shoring up the middle defence.

Getting owned up front was only further exacerbated by some really poor handling from our backs and unnecessary offloads from our pack.

The lack of halves depth is truly a huge concern for the Kiwis. Tohu Harris was well and truly exposed by the Aussie halves who only had to hit the gap between him and the outside B defender to create an overlap out wide. Nothing about his service, option taking or those cringeworthy double pumps of his suggests he is halves material. I really do hope this is the last we see of this stop gap measure because that Finals game made it abundantly clear that it has no place in International footy.

IMO it would have been better throwing TMM to the werewolves and having Harris on the bench. We needed a miracle to beat the Aussies and TMM could have provided that unknown spark. Meninga had a well tuned gameplan for Harris at 5/8 both offensively and defensively. TMM wouldnt have 10% of the player profile breakdown dossier that Harris has in Meninga's back pocket.

Another concern is our lack of quality centres. SKD was diabolical and should never wear the black jersey again. To think he has had shockers since the Perth Test yet still gains selection is an embarrassment to our depth. Even more of a concern is David Kidwell seeming to back him!

One thing that does bother me about Kidwell is while he has gone away from the gameplan that Stephen Kearney laid out he hasnt changed the team to suit his own style. Unlike Meninga he's trying to make his own mark on the Kiwis but using the old cattle. Bar leaving out Manu Vatuvei in favour of Jordan Rapana and giving Jesse Bromwich the captaincy what has he really done?

I dont see Kidwell being replaced anytime soon. As stated earlier the people who appointed him are still in power at NZRL HQ and they will probably point to the fact that we at least made the Finals. Shaun Johnson has come out backing him. Didnt he back Cappy too lo?

Justin Morgan gives me the shits and I really pray we get rid of him. The guy is cursed and his defensive patterns have been failures where ever he has tried to implement them.

It might be time for Kidwell to match the Aussie size with the introduction of players like James Fisher-Harris or bring in the brutality of players like Sam Lisone and Nelson Asofa-Solomona who would complement Manu Mau and Martin Taupau. Heres hoping by the time we head into the 2017 RLWC we have Keiran Foran, Simon Mannering, Ben Matulino, Dean Whare and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck back. All five would walk back into the team when fit and after the results of this last tourney we could sure as hell use them...
 

BeastMode

Warriors 1st Grader
Mar 7, 2015
9,272
Is it too soon to call Kidwell a bust?

He's made a few atrocious mistakes as a rookie coach.

I still think benching our Daly M Taumalolo and forgetting to use him in the friendly against Australia was most ridiculous, inexcusable mistake you could possibly make. I'm still shaking my head. I mean, how the fuck do you forget to use your strike weapon and not build around him????

Too busy watching the game as a bloody spectator and forgetting you're the coach obviously.

Glad its all over.

I can now rest in peace until next year.
 

kiwi's 13-6

Guest
Kidwell needs more experienced assistants or advisers - poching & the speed boat got to go. I'd go for Cleary & Stacey Jones if available? If NZRL are to stick with Kidwell after the Spanish inquisition they need to send him to see how things are done in other pro set ups be that Union, NFL etc & maybe give the guy a bit of media training & get a plan A B C and D etc for all different scenarios happening for the World Cup.

IF likes of Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Foran, Whare, Hiku are all fit next year our backline looks much better. with Mannering & Matelino back the forwards look bit better. Australian forward packs good but not amazing yet every time they were better coached & worked as a unit and outshone our more talented pack of individuals. JWH is a myth right from get go he showed nothing! SKD played so badly with so many crucial errors trys repeatedly gone begging dropping ball with line wide open, so many loose carries and defensive lapses... do not know what is going on but unless he has had a blinder of a season and there is a injury crisis in the centres he will be very lucky to get a Kiwi jersey again!

NZRL basically have to get proactive any one can see we were stitched up a bit by fact no kiwi refs in tournament, lack of neutral refs and playing an Internetional at 3rd division sub standard facility in Workington shouldnt have happend. Also coaching line up of Kidwell, Morgan, Poching obviously lacked experience, track record of success and allround knowledge of all aspects of the game, I am assuming when Kearney dropped out suddenly NZRL had to take who they could get a short notice as Doyle had kept signing top secret? Thats my rant over what a shit year for rugby league in NZ at professional level really disappointing!
 
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brightman

1st Grade Fringe
May 18, 2012
3,781
Auckland
I don't think the great Wayne Bennett would be so critical of Kidwell's first foray as head coach of the Kiwis, especially when his mighty England team couldn't beat anyone but Scotland..

We came so close to beating the Kangaroos in pool play, closer than all others. Yet Meninga is being rightly praised for his role that he has been honing with a Qld team chock full of Immortals for the last ten or so years..

If people around here had their way Shaun Johnson would be gone, Taumalolo would play 50mins max and the rest of the Kiwis would be filled full of u20's on debut with a unicorn named Pharlap as coach..

It took Kearney a hell of a lot to beat the Kangaroos all those 5 times from 20... yes we won some big games against them, some. But he had a lot in his favour too, like Bennett in his corner and an arrogant adversary in Ricky Stuart. Or even a lame duck like Tim Sheens.
More importantly he had hardened and talented players with a good balance of experience and youth. Players like Nathan Cayless, Simon Mannering, Benji Marshall and Manu Vatuvei. Plus good Kiwi halves partners don't come any better than Nathan Fein..

To cut to the chase, how bout some f@#king perspective from you lot!

Take a look at the big picture, the NZRL are broke and can't afford better coaches but how many better NZ coaches are there? Kearney belongs to the Warriors now and he'll have them playing "the australian brand of league" that has brought the Kiwis success in recent history, plus Doyle has gifted him the Kiwi spine so from that foundation the Warriors can now become strong and a strong Warriors will filter up to strengthen the Kiwis. We will always be the true underdog, but I for one wouldn't want it any other way..
 
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bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
20,907
Take a look at the big picture, the NZRL are broke and can't afford better coaches but how many better NZ coaches are there? Kearney belongs to the Warriors now and he'll have them playing "the australian brand of league" that has brought the Kiwis success in recent history, plus Doyle has gifted him the Kiwi spine so from that foundation the Warriors can now become strong and a strong Warriors will filter up to strengthen the Kiwis. We will always be the true underdog, but I for one wouldn't want it any other way..
JD has a lot of responsibility for the future of the game. The NZRFL have gone backwards since he left, I sure hope he stays at the Warriors.
 

brightman

1st Grade Fringe
May 18, 2012
3,781
Auckland
JD has a lot of responsibility for the future of the game. The NZRFL have gone backwards since he left, I sure hope he stays at the Warriors.
yes the NZRL have gone backwards since JD left but now the Warriors can do what the NZRL couldn't and a lot of that comes down to finances and autonomy. The Warriors have become RL in NZ and that is a good thing.
 
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Brother Faisal

1st Grade Fringe
May 9, 2012
2,198
Christchurch
Who do you propose should be the hooker and interchange hooker/utility? Leuluai is unlikely to be considered for ANZAC test next year.

We may have decent depth in the forwards but backs/halves/hooker is very worrying.
to me in my opinion these guys are the liabilities in our team on attack and defence. even though they are the leadership they still make fundamental errors, we need our young hookers to be given a go at leading this team past the world cup into the post world cup era, i just think isaac has diminished as a player and lacks direction as a hooker and its really effecting our team, bring in a new set of hookers and see who wins the spot.
 
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Maraea

1st Grade Fringe
May 20, 2013
1,021
Melbourne
yes the NZRL have gone backwards since JD left but now the Warriors can do what the NZRL couldn't and a lot of that comes down to finances and autonomy. The Warriors have become RL in NZ and that is a good thing.

No way is that a good thing for New Zealand rugby league. Its as bad as our economy and housing prices sending Kiwis overseas. Nobody wants to work together. Nobody can see past their own needs in Auckland. It divides rugby league in NZ. How many people on here pay to go see fox memorial games? Local games? But most all of us have paid to see NRL Warriors games. Warriors were to be that bridge that extra level taking league from amateur to professional. Been heaps of Aussies in the team - the least maoris?! - english recruitment - and Aussie coaches and it goes on and on. Auckland RL shouldn't be the base of NZRL at all. Can't work together.
 

Weno

1st Grade Fringe
Nov 3, 2012
2,567
No way is that a good thing for New Zealand rugby league. Its as bad as our economy and housing prices sending Kiwis overseas. Nobody wants to work together. Nobody can see past their own needs in Auckland. It divides rugby league in NZ. How many people on here pay to go see fox memorial games? Local games? But most all of us have paid to see NRL Warriors games. Warriors were to be that bridge that extra level taking league from amateur to professional. Been heaps of Aussies in the team - the least maoris?! - english recruitment - and Aussie coaches and it goes on and on. Auckland RL shouldn't be the base of NZRL at all. Can't work together.
Waikato schoolboys is the same.
Sad to say it , I bleed Waikato.
But my first Waikato schoolboy rugby league hui had me walk out within the first 15 minutes.
City hub clubs clash with the outskirt clubs saying I want , I want etc
Not once did I hear the important part of the debates .
Our Children.
So up and out I went , spoke to our childrens parents about my experience.
Told them we either go to union , or join the south Waikato club competition where we will only face three or four different teams.
So South Waikato it was and with them you hear our kids in nearly every conversation.
Happy kids , don't mind playing the same team 3-4 times in 8 weeks.
That's what its all about.
Sorry Waikato peeps , saying what I experienced.
Hate me if you want.
 

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