Internationals 2016 Australia v Kiwis Test, Perth

bruce

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Sep 1, 2015
20,399
how can this team come from the same country the all blacks come from?
Easy, because apart from South Africa nobody takes rugby seriously on the planet. It is just an upper class/university circle jerk and always has been.
In NSW and Queensland they take league very seriously. They also have more players. Did somebody mention the French, they don't count, and never did, they are just French.
 

bruce

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Sep 1, 2015
20,399
shit team shit game
I disagree. It was a very tough test match and the Kiwis were not disgraced. Two players (SKD and JWH) let us down and at that level that just cannot happen. Mutts and Fusitua would have been better than those two by a county mile. Now I know why SK never picked JWH, he is all piss and wind.
 

shuffle

1st Grade Fringe
May 18, 2012
1,093
I thought Harris and Proctor were left on too long DK should of went with Greg Eastwood and Taumalolo wasn't on long enough.

SKD was awful but Rapala was solid. Nightingale had a shocker but he and Kata were defensively sound.

Kahu was safe wasn't much of an impact we missed Roger Tuivasa-Sheck and sometimes Vatuvei but that doesn't mean Vatuvei should be in the Kiwis again (Earn it!)

Johnson looked rushed every 5th play option. Leulueai and Johnson have been halves partners for what 4 years they still don't gel. Foran plays with him a couple of games a year and they are cohesive.

I hope they can turn it around in the four nations. I'm sure they will if not we can blame Justin Morgan for leaking points lol.
 

Jordan G

Guest
Are you kidding me?

So now all of a sudden our pack isnt good enough??? Even when stacked with recent finals experience and the first daly m forward awarded since god knows how long?

Agree those forwars stats look terrible but it doesnt help when you have 1/2 the sets being hit up by the backs.

And i'm sick of the Shaun Johnson excuses. Its never his fault.

We failed because we had a shit game plan and coach. Oh god, this line sounds familiar as well.....

As much as others are sick of the blame Shaun Johnson for everything game? As usual (see Manu/Cappy threads) there's two extremes to the argument and most likely the truth is in the middle.
 

BeastMode

Warriors 1st Grader
Mar 7, 2015
9,265
As much as others are sick of the blame Shaun Johnson for everything game? As usual (see Manu/Cappy threads) there's two extremes to the argument and most likely the truth is in the middle.

Thats very true. But its also his style of play. Two extremes. Absolute star one minute, gone missing the next.

And while I'm still ranting against him, anyone else notice how much more space he uses up compared to JT with the ball? He needs to straighten up his line. Too much cross field running which leaves the rest of his backline too cramped for space.
 

Waiting For Premiership

1st Grade Fringe
Jun 11, 2012
853
Thats very true. But its also his style of play. Two extremes. Absolute star one minute, gone missing the next.

And while I'm still ranting against him, anyone else notice how much more space he uses up compared to JT with the ball? He needs to straighten up his line. Too much cross field running which leaves the rest of his backline too cramped for space.
Seriously there's too many aspects in his game that he has to improve on to stop becoming a liability , and thats not going happen with ,say 1 season with KF or 2 seasons with Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Warriors need to lay down the law NOW.... Not after the first 3 or 4 games of next season.
I would be training Ata and Lino to have his spot, and see how he likes it.
 
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mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Jun 21, 2012
22,810
Mt. Wellington, Auckland
Are you kidding me?

So now all of a sudden our pack isnt good enough??? Even when stacked with recent finals experience and the first daly m forward awarded since god knows how long?

Agree those forwards stats look terrible but it doesnt help when you have 1/2 the sets being hit up by the backs.

And i'm sick of the Shaun Johnson excuses. Its never his fault.

We failed because we had a shit game plan and coach. Oh god, this line sounds familiar as well.....
No Im not kidding.

God I get sick of the backs starting the sets dumb ass line.

Every fucking team in the world gets their backs to start the fucking sets out of their zone. Did you not see the Blake Ferguson, Valentine Holmes, Josh Dugan, Darius Boyd and Greg Inglis do exactly that? Do you not see that every team does :banghead::banghead::banghead:?

You said it yourself.

Agree those forwards stats look terrible

They look terrible cause they are Sherlock lol...
 

Jordan G

Guest
Seriously there's too many aspects in his game that he has to improve on to stop becoming a liability , and thats not going happen with ,say 1 season with KF or 2 seasons with Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Warriors need to lay down the law NOW.... Not after the first 3 or 4 games of next season.
I would be training Ata and Lino to have his spot, and see how he likes it.

Every player should be striving to improve, but I really don't think Shaun Johnson is a liability at all. He's inconsistent while playing in a team that is chronically inconsistent. The forwards won't fix that on their own, and Shaun Johnson won't fix that on his own. There needs to be a lift across the board to really guage where the problems lie.

I don't think there are many aspects of his game that aren't above average, it's a matter of doing whatever it takes to the team and individual to start getting it to click consistently.
 

BeastMode

Warriors 1st Grader
Mar 7, 2015
9,265
Kiwis coach David Kidwell admits he made fundamental errors

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/league/news/article.cfm?c_id=79&objectid=11730036

Kiwis coach David Kidwell admits he made some fundamental errors and suffered a rude awakening in his first international assignment in Saturday's 26-6 transtasman test defeat to Australia in Perth.

Three weeks into the job after being named as former Kiwis coach Stephen Kearney's successor, Kidwell accepted responsibility for the side's misfiring forward pack and poor set completions in the five-tries-to-one rout at Nib Stadium.

Kidwell admits he mishandled the side's forward interchange rotation and insisted he did not intend on damaging lock Jason Taumalolo spending the majority of the second-half on the sidelines.

The 39-year-old former Kiwis back-rower intends on formulating a clearer game plan that would better utilise the side's strengths and get the best out of halfback Shaun Johnson ahead of their opening Four Nations encounter against England on October 30 (NZT).

"I've got to look at some stuff as a new coach myself and make sure that we move forward and get it right for what is going to be the opening test of the Four Nations against England."

The Kiwis were starved of possession and territory during the opening quarter but restricted Australia to two tries and an 8-0 lead before Kevin Proctor crossed to help narrow the margin to two at halftime.

Recalled prop Jared Waerea-Hargreaves was limited to just four runs in his first test in three years and captain Jesse Bromwich and Taumalolo also struggled to impose themselves against an efficient and relentless Kangaroos forward pack.

After working themselves back into the match the Kiwis then lapsed badly in the third quarter and struggled for go-forward and momentum with Kidwell admitting he erred in keeping Taumalolo and Bromwich off for extended periods.

"The rotation for me was a big learning curve and I didn't intend on that happening like that," he said.

"We'll sit down as a coaching staff and have a look at that and, obviously, one of those points is making sure that JT (Taumalolo) is playing a bit more time and make sure that that doesn't happen again.

"I'll take full responsibility for that but I've got to learn from that and moving forward making sure that that doesn't happen again."

Johnson has worn much of the blame for the side's ineffective attack, with the Warriors playmaker preferring to launch set moves through a deep backline rather than playing on the advantage line.

The Kiwis last tackle options were also helter skelter and other than failed attempts at peppering Kangaroos debutant wing Valentine Holmes, Johnson struggled for ideas on how to build pressure on the Kangaroos.

Kidwell defended Johnson's play and believes unrealistic expectations are often placed on his shoulders but conceded improvements could be made to how they finish their sets.

"I'll sit down with Shaun and we'll have a look at those fifth tackle options," said Kidwell.

"I know from talking to him, he's a guy who sees stuff that other people don't see.

"We've just got to make sure we're communicating that stuff, make sure that we've got a good game plan around him so that he can play his best football."

Despite his brutal initiation, Kidwell is adamant the Kiwis will improve in the coming weeks as they build cohesion throughout their Four Nations title defence.

"Everyone here is hurting, which I want. There are good signs there for us.

"We've just got to make sure that we produce what we're doing off the field at training and introduce it into our performance come game day."

WTF? are you kidding me???? forgot to use our strike weapon in Taumalolo??????????? only realises it after the game???? bloody hell has this guy taken a leaf out of Cappys book.
 

BeastMode

Warriors 1st Grader
Mar 7, 2015
9,265
No Im not kidding.

God I get sick of the backs starting the sets dumb ass line.

Every fucking team in the world gets their backs to start the fucking sets out of their zone. Did you not see the Blake Ferguson, Valentine Holmes, Josh Dugan, Darius Boyd and Greg Inglis do exactly that? Do you not see that every team does :banghead::banghead::banghead:?

You said it yourself.

They look terrible cause they are Sherlock lol...

My dear Dr Watson, the backs can take 1, maybe 2 hit ups tops - but when you them all taking turns to use up the tackle count, you have to wonder WTF are these guys doing.....

our forward stats were shit because they weren't being fed the ball. And that's just bad coaching and strategy.
 
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bruce

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Sep 1, 2015
20,399
What do ya' think we should do with the pair of them?
JWH should never have been selected because he has never performed at test level. SKD was short of a game and might improve. The squad is picked so unless they get Taumololo to belt JWH at practice and get him sent home injured there is nothing Kidwell can do.
WTF? are you kidding me???? forgot to use our strike weapon in Taumalolo??????????? only realises it after the game???? bloody hell has this guy taken a leaf out of Cappys book.
and to think he was being considered as a Warriors coach:eek:...to be fair there have been some ordinary Kiwi coaches who have won games e.g. Bluey, Graham Norton, Bob Bailey and Tony Gordon so I am happy we have SK for the Warriors. With that Kiwi forward pack firing for 80 minutes things are not all doom and gloom.
 

Weno

1st Grade Fringe
Nov 3, 2012
2,567
Missed Roger Tuivasa-Sheck.
Proctor poked through a few times and had no one running off him with free hands.
I Think Roger Tuivasa-Sheck would of sniffed that out.
Kahu did his best , defused a lot of JTs work , had a sound game.

Rapana was hearty , can hold his head up , same as for Manu Mau.

Kata was rock solid , he was a target out wide and smashed Dugan every time.
Can be proud of his debut , could be there for a long time.

Nightingale never lets the jersey down , but he was ineffective on attack.
Think it is time for a change of guard on his flank .

JWH? J Brom couldn't dominate.
Taupau had to come on and lead the way.

T.L was huge on defence , played with hunger and passion.

J.T , why was he left off for so long.

S.J needs to sort his kicking game out , want to see more enthusiasm from such a talent.
But it has to start up front for him to do so.

Would like to see our pack get away from the one off stuff.
Played right into the Kangaroos hands making it easy for them.
They had us sorted all night.

Darius Boyd scored , I hate the Mutha F#cker with a passion.

Don't know what Kidwell has in mind for the four nations.
But lets wait and see?
 

Waiting For Premiership

1st Grade Fringe
Jun 11, 2012
853
Every player should be striving to improve, but I really don't think Shaun Johnson is a liability at all. He's inconsistent while playing in a team that is chronically inconsistent. The forwards won't fix that on their own, and Shaun Johnson won't fix that on his own. There needs to be a lift across the board to really guage where the problems lie.

I don't think there are many aspects of his game that aren't above average, it's a matter of doing whatever it takes to the team and individual to start getting it to click consistently.
So basically Shaun Johnson needs to be in a team of champions to produce anything above average ? He needs big hard ass forwards to give him time to do his few minutes of magic , he will also require centres and wingers of a high IQ to read his game plan ie will he run, pass or bomb , and if he runs sideways the wingers and centres will already be offside so momentum will have stopped , but because they have a superior IQ they would have compensated for this. His dummy half should be able to break the line all the time , which then gives Shaun Johnson a breather with all the extra metres that he's run, oops nearly forgot so by the time the Warriors have built a team round him ....he might have retired !
 

Jordan G

Guest
So basically Shaun Johnson needs to be in a team of champions to produce anything above average ? He needs big hard ass forwards to give him time to do his few minutes of magic , he will also require centres and wingers of a high IQ to read his game plan ie will he run, pass or bomb , and if he runs sideways the wingers and centres will already be offside so momentum will have stopped , but because they have a superior IQ they would have compensated for this. His dummy half should be able to break the line all the time , which then gives Shaun Johnson a breather with all the extra metres that he's run, oops nearly forgot so by the time the Warriors have built a team round him ....he might have retired !

Yes, because saying that the team needs to improve across the board to get the best out of Shaun Johnson is the same thing as saying that Shaun Johnson needs a team of champions to do anything above average.

As far as long bows go, you've drawn a doozy there my friend.
 

Brother Faisal

1st Grade Fringe
May 9, 2012
2,198
Christchurch
Man watching the tape its pretty clear how bad we were and how good aussie are.

The variety of passes and decoys that cam smith sets up are insane. You could write a playbook on different hit up plays he has. the aussies test both sides of the ruck with structure, pace and creativity, it leaves the mind wondering whats gonna hit you and from where. They might do a hit up. then 2nd tackle go left to inglis. then out the back to a second rower. then 2 props running together and skip to the outside one, then a well placed kick. I mean how can you defend that then try create some attack. Its just too slick and too much to deal with. They are the best in the world and will be hard to stop come world cup and four nations.

How do we counter it?

Well id' say they didnt really have to defend much last night, the only chance we really had on their goal line we scored isolating thurston. so what does that say about the aussie defence? its breakable but we just kept incompleting sets and had no offensive structure.

i'd say a few things.

we need less dummy half runs. they take away from what the team do and leave the dummy half runner on his own. Luke went away from plays by trying to exploit the ruck but i felt ultimately sacrificed a better play. also dummy half runs from our backs early in the sets got shut down immediately, the forwards have to hustle to get back or the backs as a group need to create some simple decoy plays to get on the front foot.

Isaac really needs to get his calls right out of dummy half. Im gonna put the blame firstly on the coaching staff for the attack but there was nothing prepared for out of the ruck. the gameplan from what we all saw was one out hit ups and dummy half runs from backs. For a professional national team its shit and completely and utterly predictable. Jesse, isaac and the rest of the forwards need to design some specific type hit ups with variation attacking the edges then up the middle.

His service is also to slow and the runners were receiving the ball too far back. He has to sharpen up and organise the offensive ruck plays. He is partly the reason for the lack of forward ball. im actually not sure who's in charge of organising the hit ups but it seems cam smith does it.

Every 6 tackles the aussie have its designed for a specific person or result, if the previous hit up didnt work, thurston and the like can think so quickly to decide what should be done next wether its a kick or pass.


Nothing was designed out there for us.

Firstly leuleuai has to get some more touches if there gonna keep him at 6. dugan and fergo didnt get tested all night unfortunately. Last anzac test we exploited dugan well. im for johnson working both sides of the field it might be the only way we can compete.it would keep other teams guessing.

5th tackle options were bad because the rest of the tackles had no purpose. In saying that thats Shaun Johnson's area and he was completely shit. the backs need to meet together and sort this out quickly before england.

The one out hit ups in 2014 worked because aussie didnt have anyone to deal with them. Now Mal has nullified our one out hit ups with size its evident we are a one trick pony on attack without foran. We have 2 options. first do the same but this time increase the offloads and continue the off the cuff with hope Shaun Johnson can create something second phase. Or we need to mirror some of the australian attack which is variety from the ruck and sets of 6 with an end result in mind. We can no longer exploit the middle one out we have to bring something different.

Its a team issue ultimately, these guys need to organize this offense together. i dont believe it should all be on Shaun Johnson but he should be given a specific role, everyone who touches a ball needs to know their importance in their use of the ball on that specific play and other guys like kahu, leuleuai, luke need to get involved more effectively and as a group lead these big guys around the park and tell them what to do and where to go, theyre not decision makers they're battering rams and the spine need to direct them, and the moment its all not happening but im hoping the boys can find something before the four nations.
 

Brother Faisal

1st Grade Fringe
May 9, 2012
2,198
Christchurch
from watching the tape i think leuleuai is a better hooker than luke.

If you watch last years anzac test youll notice we pile on the points when leuleuai comes on. His service is much sharper and his organisation and pass selection around the ruck is outstanding. The forwards get a good roll on with him and the halves get the ball where they want.

I have tommy as starting hooker for the rest of the tour and luke off the bench. luke can be more effective attacking tired forwards around the ruck.

Its night and day once you see the speed leuleuai brings around the ruck and his support play to offloads, i think our best game in the last 5 years was the first game against the aussies in the 2014 four nations, its really well structured, its exciting and organised well, we test the edges so much with expansive play as well as hitting the middle with great offloads for second phase.

Gotta start leuleuai at hooker for mine to start to turn this team around.
 
Jun 26, 2012
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Easy, because apart from South Africa nobody takes rugby seriously on the planet. It is just an upper class/university circle jerk and always has been.
In NSW and Queensland they take league very seriously. They also have more players. Did somebody mention the French, they don't count, and never did, they are just French.
if its a little nobody game
why do all the talented footballers in the country play rugby?
every kid in nz wants to be an all black be a world champion that smashes everyone every where
no one wants to play for the kiwis
and league is only important in two parts of australia and new zealand
and new zealand can't even beat australia on a consistent basis lol
upper class circle jerks?
thats like saying leagues only for women bashers and dole bludgers lol
dont be jealous about nz rugby and the success it has because the all blacks go out and play with skill speed and power
while the kiwis are boring
 
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bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
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Sep 1, 2015
20,399
if its a little nobody game
why do all the talented footballers in the country play rugby?
Because it is the national game, the only country in the world where it is.

Wales and South Africa used to be, but football has taken over there. now.

When South Africa got kicked out of rugby because of apartheid the All Blacks were number one with nobody else to play. That is why they won the first RWC. When Australia got their act together and were able to compete for a while with the league salaries they posed a threat and fluked things for a while. Now it is back to normal transmission.

I am not knocking the All Blacks, they are awesome, but if there was one game of rugby, neither union or league, Australia would start to kick arse again. That is what the Kiwis are up against, and doing pretty well to be fair.
 

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