Rumour 2015 Warriors Salary Cap Breach Rumour

[mrblonde]

I think how it works is, we release Mateo early from his 500k p/a contract, Manly take up his contract but only want to pay him 400k per season, in that case the Warriors can either pay the other 100k difference which is counted in our cap or the Warriors can say no and hold onto Mateo until they get a deal they're happy with...i think.

Ta. Sorry, edited my post in the meantime!

 

[jonno]

Ex-Warriors we've released early still have to be part of the salary cap, as I understand the system.

Take Player A: He was signed with the Warriors on $500,000 (say, I have NFI if that's true). He gets told he's not wanted at the Warriors. At that point, because he's being released rather than asking to be released, the club are obliged to pay him a certain percentage of the salary he's on for the next two years or if he finds another club and since he's found Manly either the Warriors pay him out of his contract for the further years he's contracted for or since if he finds another club ded to $250,000 for 2015 and 2016 now he's with Manly.

When relas
Is part of the issue that the Warriors agreed to a higher level of subsidising ex-players current salary than prudent?

And I wonder if this has to do with backloading contracts - ie players signed contracts in 2013 for three years (14/15/16) at a certain level and in 2016 get themselves a built in increase that hasn't been factored in.

If we're back loading contracts and don't have "shit performance get out free" clauses built in then it's no wonder we suck...

Mateo signed his big payday contract with us and then promptly turned to Mudteo until we finally agreed to punt him over to Manly... The guys a con artist...

 

[facefacts]

If we're back loading contracts and don't have "shit performance get out free" clauses built in then it's no wonder we suck...

Mateo signed his big payday contract with us and then promptly turned to Mudteo until we finally agreed to punt him over to Manly... The guys a con artist...

The guy didn't turn to mud and neither did Inu, they played here pretty much exactly how they played at Parra.

Inconsistent as fuck and lazy on D...it's strange they didn't fit in better here.

 

[jonno]

The guy didn't turn to mud and neither did Inu, they played here pretty much exactly how they played at Parra.

Inconsistent as fuck and lazy on D...it's strange they didn't fit in better here.

So you're saying giving Mateo a contract of $500,000 a season was utter insanity then?

How many more insane contracts is Doyle currently looking at?

 

[Jordan G]

I have never noticed that

Not that it mattered in the end, but he saved our ass last week in the 13th minute with a desperate cover tackle after I think Tomkins (in the front line for some reason) slipped over (again). Lillyman is very good at spotting where the danger is in the middle.

 

[Warriors95]

View attachment 15007 Lol apparently there needs to be an investigation into why the Warriors where able to sign Roger Tuivasa-Sheck. Didn't know the Warriors had a player called Tompkins.
https://www.thechookpen.com.au/vb5/...ssion/613994-there-has-to-be-an-investigation.

The Roosters fans accusing us of salary cap cheating, I think I've heard it all now.

Edit: In fact I feel like jumping on their forum and asking them to take a long hard look at their own team.

This is so rich.

 

[Fazz]

Man for FUCK sake. If we get smashed with a point deduction or something after that shit the Cowboys got away with, I think I'm done.

First Shaun Johnson's ankle injury, then the shit where the NRL's banker CEO says they're going to hammer people (harder) for the shoulder charge. I'm so close to just utterly giving up entirely, even with the promise of Roger Tuivasa-Sheck and Luke. It's just getting way too hard to put up with the constant idiotic rule changes, horrible officiating and baffling decisions towards expansion/stadium use.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that's finding it harder and harder to give a fuck about a game that just seems to be inherently broken.

In saying that, though. Hopefully this isn't as bad as it sounds.

 

[wallacenz]

Man for FUCK sake. If we get smashed with a point deduction or something after that shit the Cowboys got away with, I think I'm done.

First Shaun Johnson's ankle injury, then the shit where the NRL's banker CEO says they're going to hammer people (harder) for the shoulder charge. I'm so close to just utterly giving up entirely, even with the promise of Roger Tuivasa-Sheck and Luke. It's just getting way too hard to put up with the constant idiotic rule changes, horrible officiating and baffling decisions towards expansion/stadium use.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that's finding it harder and harder to give a fuck about a game that just seems to be inherently broken.

In saying that, though. Hopefully this isn't as bad as it sounds.

Personally I dont mind rule changes, the game is still exciting and interesting. But when it comes to the Warriors the failure to make the top 8 or put together a decent season is painful to follow. They just seem to start every season poorly and buckle when the pressure is on at the backend of the season.. the same story every year

 

[Ever Hopeful]

I think that the biggest evil in all of this is the fact that clubs that struggle to attract talent are forced to pay overs to their current shit players to satisfy the spend 90% of your cap rule. The easy solution would be to sign everyone to 1 year contracts but players would leave in droves if you did that.

Then you get the Raiders, Eels, Us, Tigers etc that try to legitimately cast off the deadwood that is bad for the game and we get hammered for it.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, the NRL is a microcosm of society and its dirty politics.

 

[jonno]

I think that the biggest evil in all of this is the fact that clubs that struggle to attract talent are forced to pay overs to their current shit players to satisfy the spend 90% of your cap rule. The easy solution would be to sign everyone to 1 year contracts but players would leave in droves if you did that.

Then you get the Raiders, Eels, Us, Tigers etc that try to legitimately cast off the deadwood that is bad for the game and we get hammered for it.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, the NRL is a microcosm of society and its dirty politics.

If our top 17 players want to stay together they could all agree to take pay cuts for the greater good...

 

[Fazz]

Personally I dont mind rule changes, the game is still exciting and interesting. But when it comes to the Warriors the failure to make the top 8 or put together a decent season is painful to follow. They just seem to start every season poorly and buckle when the pressure is on at the backend of the season.. the same story every year

Each to their own, but the removal of the shoulder charge and castration of the sin bin have been a blight on the game in my opinion.

The concussion rule, while good in theory, is deeply flawed as well. It's not fair to a team to play down 1 or more players. There needs to be a true 18th man that can only be played if there is a concussion injury. Maybe two - a back and a forward.

In general, the standard of officiating is as bad as it's ever been. To be honest, I think it's because the NRL have fucked with the rules and "interpretations" to the point where things are so grey that the refs have no chance. Honestly, things should be black and white. The word interpretation should never have entered the rule makers vernacular. We're at the point where almost every decision can be argued, which each side having a legitimate gripe. It's fucking absurd.

(I'm not having a go at you man, sorry. I'm just venting haha)

 

[Iafetas Kickstand Wang]

I think if there was a major issue, and some major player talent had to be moved on, then you'd think by now there would be massive rumours going around about the players who would be going. I can't imagine for example Simon Mannering negotiating with other clubs would be covered up and not all over the press. FFS when we were trying to punt Krisnan Inu and Feleti Mateo it was all over the news, they certainly don't have the reputation or respect of blokes like Mannering.

The only thing I can think of is if Ligi Sao was signed on the presumption that Feleti Mateo was being moved on by Manly and would be heading to Pommyland.

In a sense it doesn't back up Jim Doyle's version of events either. He was quick to point out that Roger Tuivasa-Sheck basically came as a direct salary replacement for Sam Tomkins (seems plausible), and that Isaac Luke couldn't negotiate the big dollars given he wanted to come to New Zealand and that there is only one club here, so his bargaining power in a sense was down and in a sense heavily favoured the Warriors. Now I guarantee Isaac Luke is still going to the bank with a reasonably happy smile on his face, but it doesn't stack up that say he's on Inglis or Cameron Smith type cash.

There's no doubt some of the lads would have got fairly significant increases. Konrad Hurrell was well managed in that it was out there that he was considering other options, so I'm sure he demanded a higher price than last time. Tuimoala Lolohea, Ken Maumalo, definitely they have had increases, but I doubt massive increases. It seems to me the Warriors strategy has been to move on top 25 players that aren't premier players (Sebastine Ikahihifo, Nathan Friend, Sam Rapira, trying to move on Sione Lousi and Matt Allwood, lost Chad Townsend and Ngani Laumape), promoted players from outside the top 25 to top 25 contracts (Topafoa Sipley, Albert Vete, Sam Lisone, Tuimoala Lolohea, Ken Maumalo), and used the money saved to buy Roger Tuivasa-Sheck and Luke. Would seem a fairly reasonable strategy that should be manageable under the cap.

If its a matter of the Warriors not being able to afford quality players, then I think the cap in itself is kind of flawed. If a top line player can sign for a consistently high flying club like the Roosters, Rabbits, Storm or Broncos for $350k, yet the Warriors, Tigers, Eels etc would have to pay $700k, it suggests to me that there is still some imbalance in the policy that would require review.

 

[Jordan G]

Isn't Maumalo listed as off contract? Our issue could extend to fitting him in next year as well.

 

[mt.wellington]

Reckon we'll be all right. With Jim Doyle at the helm we'll have no choice which is likely why we are seeing this mass exodus. Little wonder we only offered Ngani Laumape a one year contract as well as re-signing Jonathan Wright who would be on peanuts. Substantially less than what Ngani Laumape was worth anyway.

​

The Warriors tweet while trying to quash this rumour has offered an insight into what the club are currently doing. The term 'realining' in my mind confirms that there is something amiss with our cap. It certainly brings the roster cull into perspective.

We know that Sebastine Ikahihifo, David Bhana and Sione Lousi are gone. Im getting strong word that Glen Fisiiahi has gone to Union. Whats the likelihood of Raymond Faitala-Mariner getting a decent upgrade in line with his progression? Im guessing that unless he is willing to take unders he will be lost to us. The biggest loser looks to be Jacob Lillyman who wont be re-signed thus freeing up more cap space. Also players like Manu Vatuvei, Simon Mannering and Thomas Leuluai may get shopped around or have to take a pay cut. Not sure how that works with Tommy signed until 2017 while Juju and Manu are signed until 2018.

As stated Jim Doyle has no choice but to get the roster 'realigned' and get us under the cap. Would test the patience of even the staunchest of fans if we head into the 2016 season behind the eight ball on the ladder.

Will make for an interesting members forum this Wednesday....

 

[mt.wellington]

For those trying to keep pace of our roster movements...

Released 2015:

Api Pewhairangi - Rugby Union
Brad Abbey- Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs
Chad Townsend - Cronulla-Sutherland Sharks
Dominique Peyroux - Catalans Dragons
Nathan Friend - Gold Coast Titans
Nathaniel Peteru - Gold Coast Titans
Ngani Laumape - Wellington Huricanes Rugby Union
Sam Tomkins - Wigan Warriors
Siliva Havili - St George-Illawarra Dragons
Suaia Matagi - Sydney Roosters

Possibly released or off contract 2016:

Glen Fisiiahi 2015
Mason Lino 2015
Paul Tuli 2015
Raymond Faitala-Mariner 2015
Sebastine Ikahihifo 2015
Tomasi Aoake 2015
Ben Henry 2016
Charlie Gubb 2016
David Bhana 2016
John Palavi 2016
Jonathan Wright 2016
Marata Nikore 2016
Sione Lousi 2016
Ken Maumalo ????
Jacob Lillyman 2017

Re-signed or upgraded 2015 (red = upgraded):

Konrad Hurrell 2018
Ben Matulino 2017
Manu Vatuvei 2018
Tuimoala Lolohea 2018
Sam Lisone 2018
Solomone Kata 2018
Toafofoa Sipley 2017
Albert Vete 2017
Nathaniel Roache 2017
Jonathan Wright 2016
Marata Nikore 2016
Ben Henry 2016

New signings for 2016:

Roger Tuivasa-Sheck 2018
Issac Luke 2018
Ligi Sao 2017

Rest of the squad:

Bodene Thompson 2017
David Fusitua 2017
Ryan Hoffman 2017
Shaun Johnson 2017
Simon Mannering 2018
Thomas Leuluai 2017

 

[olek_skillgannon]

its not even a salary cap breach
it was just a kfc receipt

 

[Lord Gnome of Howick MBE]

Apparently we've been caught paying a large amount of money to someone who's not actually a football player.

Chad somebody?

 

[Play The Ball]

I laugh at some people still complaining about the Cowboys situation. They were operating WITHIN the rules. The rules are pretty clear. I would argue the Roosters are most likely to be one of the clubs operating UNDER the salary cap. The cap rules are made for them. Third party deals allow them to not have to resort to cheating. No need for a brown paper bag if your payments are completely legal nowadays.
Are people really upset the club offloaded Stacey Jones after the Price/Wiki fiasco? I wasn't and I loved Stacey. He was just getting past his best at that time and that is exactly when you should move someone on under a hard-capped league - club legend or not. Vatuvei would be in this category now and there's no way I would have given him another deal. No disrespect to him but better value for money out there.
So long as Matulino, Mannering and Johnson aren't offloaded then I don't see a problem. I would move Manu or Hurrell before I looked at risking Hoffman or Lillyman - heck the pack is already in the bottom half as it is without losing one of their cornerstones.

 

[Fantail23]

Done some digging and its not looking good mate. Wont say anymore in case the press got the heads up from the post I did earlier. Not good anyway.

Sione Lousi is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of what we need to cut...

Great so we have a crap team now & are going to be over the cap net year, What more can go wrong with this club. & it's not a salary cap when sides like the roosters can sign 700k in 3rd party deals over the cap. The vultures pay nothing to the clubs they steal the best talent from, there needs to be a transfer system where clubs get money for the players they develop. Look at the players the roosters take every year from other clubs because they effectively have more money thru 3rd party deals. If we are over it shows you we will never win the comp because we need to pay to much for average players.

 

[Play The Ball]

I have heard the Warriors needed to shed players to be under the cap for next season but this is the first I've heard of it being players they had wanted to keep.
Having said that, it is way too simplistic to say Roger Tuivasa-Sheck and Tomkins cancel each other out and Luke comes in with all those other players leaving (Laumape, Friend, Rapira etc). Most players' contracts are structured so they earn more in the latter years of their deal meaning they will earn more in 2016 than this year.
I'd be very surprised if this turned out to be a cock-up when Doyle would have a better grasp of the rules than most.