General 2008 Election

  • Thread starter warriors4life_old
  • Start date

Which party will you vote for in the 2008 Election?

  • ACT

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Alliance

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Destiny Church

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Green

    Votes: 3 20.0%
  • Labour

    Votes: 4 26.7%
  • Maori Party

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • National

    Votes: 8 53.3%
  • New Zealand First

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Progressives

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • United Future

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    15

daj3_old

Guest
In the scheme of things Kav, humanity and the environment are the same thing. No good protecting our kids if there's no environment left. I'm of the opinion that people shouldn't have kids... the world is overpopulated. But then it's a case of intelligent parents not having kids and then everyone else keeps breeding... we're already seeing evidence of this in our last election result... :lol1:

Yeah, I dunno abortion is still a grey area for me. From a completely utilitarian perspective its a good thing... less people, less "unwanted children", less strain on our welfare systems and more young women able to focus on education.

That's an extremely one-sided and overly optimistic approach though... and depending on the science of how a life develops I'm inclined to disagree in a big way.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
Firstly making it clear that I'm pro-life/anti-abortion, I think a blanket law making abortion illegal would cause people to go 'underground' to get abortions done, and endanger not only the baby as intended, but also the mother. And even though I'm opposed to abortion, I don't think it's quite as black and white as either side makes it out to be.
 

LordGnome_old

Guest
A bit like the Republic of Ireland, where abortion is still illegal (and the only backstreet abortion clinic has had to close, due to the escape of the ferret!)

I'll get me coat.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
What do you lot think about this proposed leadership for Labour?

Goff set for Labour leadership


Outgoing Trade and Defence Minister Phil Goff is set to become the new leader of the Labour Party to follow Helen Clark, but the deputy leadership could be a contest.

In the running are expected to be veteran minister Annette King and possibly former Health Minister David Cunliffe. Ms King would be the favourite at present.

A vote, however, could be avoided through a negotiated transition.

Outgoing Prime Minister Helen Clark announced that she would resign as Labour leader after the election defeat.

"It's over and out for me," she told shocked party members.

Deputy leader and Finance Minister Michael Cullen also announced yesterday he would step down.

The caucus will meet in Wellington tomorrow, but with no clear deputy emerging it is unlikely that the leadership issue will be resolved then.

Mr Cunliffe has been tipped as a future leader of the party but on Saturday night said: "I will not put my hand up for leadership. I will not accept the nomination if someone else offers it to me."

He said Labour was a collectivist party. "Wisdom will be shared, and I wouldn't be surprised if people come to a pretty shared collective view." Mr Cunliffe did not, however, rule out standing for the deputy's post if it became vacant.

Shane Jones has also been tipped as a possible leadership prospect but has fallen from favour, not least because of his handling of the "showerhead" fiasco at the start of the election campaign and his decision in August to grant residency to controversial wealthy businessman Yang Liu against official advice.

Trevor Mallard was tipped by Helen Clark in 2000 as a potential successor, but his star has fallen in recent years.

Mr Goff appeared to be the only leadership contender yesterday, with less certainty around the deputy's post.

Former president and outgoing Housing Minister Maryan Street last night ruled herself out of contention for deputy.

The caucus will be weighing whether to go with a younger generation of MPs and future leadership prospect in Mr Cunliffe, with the inherent tensions that could create - or go with an older, safer pair of hands in Annette King.

Geography could be a factor against Mr Cunliffe. He and Mr Goff are both from western Auckland seats - Roskill and New Lynn - though neither lives in his electorate.

Mr Cunliffe would be the front-runner to take over the finance portfolio under a Goff-King leadership combination.

Dr Cullen has not yet indicated that he will be relinquishing the finance role as speedily as the deputy's post, but he is expected to hand it over to a younger face.

Maryan Street would be a contender for health or education, and Clayton Cosgrove and Darren Hughes could expect promotion.
 

JonB_old

Guest
Looking at that list it looks like we will be waiting till 2014 for the next Labor Government.
 

Skinny_Ravs82

Guest
I definitely don't agree about abortions and certainly don't agree with the stupidity of women getting pregnant and then decided. nope had enough let's get rid of it either.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
I definitely don't agree about abortions and certainly don't agree with the stupidity of women getting pregnant and then decided. nope had enough let's get rid of it either.

Is it always about stupidity?

What if she was gang raped?

What if the baby was expected to be disabled?

What if continuing the pregnancy would endanger her (the mother's) life?
 

Kav_old

Guest
In the scheme of things Kav, humanity and the environment are the same thing. No good protecting our kids if there's no environment left. I'm of the opinion that people shouldn't have kids... the world is overpopulated. But then it's a case of intelligent parents not having kids and then everyone else keeps breeding... we're already seeing evidence of this in our last election result... :lol1:

Yeah, I dunno abortion is still a grey area for me. From a completely utilitarian perspective its a good thing... less people, less "unwanted children", less strain on our welfare systems and more young women able to focus on education.

That's an extremely one-sided and overly optimistic approach though... and depending on the science of how a life develops I'm inclined to disagree in a big way.

First of all, the world is far from over-populated. The problem is that that the world's resources are poorly distributed.

As to your intelligent parent comment, that smacks a bit like intellectual superiority. Opportunity and environmental factors play a part too in how well children do at school and afterwards.

I cannot see any positives coming from an abortion. There are always at least two victims -mother and baby - while the effect on the immediate family and friends is surely more negative than positive. The mother must bear the mental scars for the rest of her life. Fathers are able to dodge their responsibilities and that is another negative aspect.
The taking of human life in the womb is the denial of one of humanities' greatest relationships - the bond between mother and child. Society does it at it's peril.

Kav
 

LordGnome_old

Guest
Goof is not what Labour need. They should be looking to the future, not the past.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
Goof is not what Labour need. They should be looking to the future, not the past.

What do you think about King as assistant leader, LordGnome? I don't really have an opinion on her. Having a woman in the top 2 will be popular, as long as she's one of the 2 most applicable for the job.

As someone who isn't a fan of Labour, I'd find Phil Goff a better voting option than I did Helen Clark.

Who do you reckon they should go for?
 

LordGnome_old

Guest
I have met King a couple of times and she is very capable, however, I doubt her style would be palatable to voters.

Goff - the Goof was a typo, not an attempted pun! - is still of Clark's generation. Labour are probably looking at siz years in opposition, they need to be looking to the future not the past.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
I have met King a couple of times and she is very capable, however, I doubt her style would be palatable to voters.

Goff - the Goof was a typo, not an attempted pun! - is still of Clark's generation. Labour are probably looking at siz years in opposition, they need to be looking to the future not the past.

Haha, I thought it was an intentional pun! :lol1:

But Goff has the experience, does he not? He seems a very unassuming sort of character. Let's just say I'd be more comfortable having him as my neighbour than Helen Clark, Clark's league fanaticism notwithstanding.

Who would you propose, Gnome? I guess it's trying to find that balance between the person who is both fresh enough and experienced enough to take on the job.
 

LordGnome_old

Guest
I don't really know to be honest. I know several members of Labours inner-cirlce, and they are all looking for new jobs at present (as they feel that their time has passed.)

I just think that the party needs to go away and lick its wounds for a couple of years and come back with some fresh faces - they will get back in once people realise that National are only interested on those on over $150k a year and who use private health care and schooling.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
I don't really know to be honest. I know several members of Labours inner-cirlce, and they are all looking for new jobs at present (as they feel that their time has passed.)

I just think that the party needs to go away and lick its wounds for a couple of years and come back with some fresh faces - they will get back in once people realise that National are only interested on those on over $150k a year and who use private health care and schooling.

Do you mean you know them personally?

There are certainly some fresh faces in Labour's lineup. I saw on Campbell Live last night, that they highlighted four up-and-coming young Labour MPs. I think they were in the 30s or around about that. Similarly, National's Tauranga MP Simon Bridges is only 32 and the woman who beat Bob Tizard's daughter in Auckland Central is only 28. (Poor Bob - I might have to chat to him about that one, lol.)
 

Northern_Union

Guest
You run in exalted circles Lord HawHaw. Kind of explains some of your rather ultra left wing statements of recent times.
 

LordGnome_old

Guest
Its only because senior non-MP Labour party officials have got to sit on the boards of state owned enterprises in recent years, no doubt they will soon be replaced by senior National party executives.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
Well, Goff got the gig as expected, and it turns out he's a leaguie, much like his predecessor...

A Labour of love for new leader Phil Goff

Phil Goff takes the term "media savvy" to the extreme.

He once called NZPA from an overseas trip at 3am, and finding nobody there, left an interview with himself on the answerphone.

It said: "I know it's early and there won't be anyone there, but here's what I did today" and left what was essentially himself talking to himself as a message.

Mr Goff's media skills are part of the package the politician will bring to the Labour leadership.

He is also a details man with political antennae finely tuned into the public mood - all similar attributes to his predecessor Helen Clark.

The 55-year-old yesterday said he wanted to lead Labour back into power at the next election in three years, then campaign "as Prime Minister" at the 2014 election, aged 61.

Mr Goff's working hours are described as "atrocious". He starts at dawn or before, goes off to play squash at 10pm, works until after 1am and is back at his desk in the morning.

He wants "his head around everything" so he can never be blindsided.

As Minister of Foreign Affairs, he would not be satisfied with the reports of officials, but would want a selection of overseas reportage as well. Conversely, when working overseas, he gets staff to send up to 20 pages of news clippings from home each day.

Despite the pace and standards he sets, Mr Goff is a relaxed boss, although those who fall behind pick up his discontent "by osmosis".

Mr Goff was born into the Labour Party, officially joining at age 15. He put himself through Auckland University, where he gained a MA in political science and was a contemporary of Helen Clark on Vietnam War protests.

He won the Mt Roskill seat in 1981, and became a Cabinet minister in the Labour Government until he was turfed out by Gilbert Myles in 1990.

He was back after a three-year hiatus in 1993 and has held Mt Roskill ever since, where he is known to still go door-knocking despite the seat being safe and his busy schedule.

Mr Goff was Minister of Foreign Affairs until after the last election when he reluctantly had to relinquish the role to Winston Peters as part of his deal with Helen Clark. He kept his hand in the international arena with the trade and defence portfolios.

One distinction of Mr Goff's political career is that despite being high-profile, he has rarely stuffed up or got out of step with public opinion.

Once part of Mike Moore's crew in the Labour Party, he and Helen Clark have had their differences. While he came to accept her, ambition for the leadership role has always been there.

Mr Goff is a hardliner on law and order and how he pitches Labour against a National-Act Government with a similar philosophy will be interesting. If they fail, look out. If they work, Mr Goff may have nowhere to go. His weaknesses are said to be that he is a political loner, is seen to lack empathy and charisma and "lacks verbal discipline".

Mr Goff is a ready-to-go leader who will take John Key's new Government on from day one.

* Philip Bruce Goff
Aged 55.
Married to Mary, three adult children.
MP for Mt Roskill.
Lives on a small farm in Clevedon outside Auckland.
Likes rugby league, plays squash, has sold his Norton motorbike.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz-election-2008/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501799&objectid=10542507

Not sure about the photo, though, lol. Helen Clark looks pretty stunned! :lol1:
goff8.jpg
 

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